Coach Jack: Better Wahoo Elemnt Support (ranges and .plan files)

Feature Requests
#1

Hi,
First of all congratulations on the recent development, I am really impressed with the training plan builder and the added options to limit daily workout duration!
I’ve used the workout builder (ERGdb) with manual export to my Wahoo ELEMNT in the past, after first reading about “Coach Jack” I was hooked and it only took me some days of reading in this forum before I subscribed.
Having completed the first two workouts from my plan I would like to know when the adaption of workouts for outdoor training will be released. In my last workout I had three blocks going from 211 W to 208 W to 205 W over the course of 10 min - I assume the “outdoor” version of the workout will include coarser “quantization” of power values, i.e. only differences greater than x % will be included, right?
Another extension (Wahoo-specific) would be the export of Wahoo *.plan files for the entire training plan where target ranges can be defined. The workout dates can be set in the *.plan file, too (file format).

Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Joschka

Coach Jack - Creating a better outdoor experience
#2

Yes outdoor version (currently for Garmin) has bigger variance of final power. We are also going to try to add more variablity to indoor as well. This is great idea on plan files. I am a wahoo user myself. I keep hoping they finish their public API which we should be first in line to use but they are going very slow. Plan file with dates is good idea too. I did not realize that was possible. I read about them a little in the past. I will research this, I can assume it would not be so hard.

#3

Thanks for the feedback. Currently I’m syncing to Wahoo via TrainingPeaks (had to update my FTP, there, after it messed up my first workout) which is convenient via the Trainerday website :+1: Maybe you could add the option for bigger variance (“outdoor mode”) also to other export pipelines?

If you investigate this, drop me a PM - I have setup a couple of workouts that I could share, they use target ranges for both heart rate (before I had a power meter) and power. If users download a full plan (e.g. as zip archive) and save them to their Wahoo device once it’s not as inconvenient as doing this over and over for each workout.

#4

Yes good point. We need to do that. We have 4 different options for Garmin right now but zero for other platforms. TrainingPeaks would be good first step. I think below would be enough for TP. For Garmin we have open ended intervals where you press lap button to move to next interval but as far as I know Wahoo does not support that still.

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Sure great on the .plan files. When I am ready I will shoot you a message and maybe you could help beta test the .plan files as well. I am going to move this to a new thread for better wahoo support.

#5

Ah, didn’t know about this option - it makes sense to enable this also for TrainingPeaks.

On the Wahoo ELEMNT you can always “pause” your workout by clicking the middle button “<>” (the track and sensor data is still recorded), this prolongs the current interval. So it’s the other way round: you can extend your current interval instead of having to skip to the next interval as you describe for Garmin. In practice, I use this pause feature e.g. to extend the break before the next set if I approach crossroads or face traffic, or to extend a work interval if I had to slow down mid-way due to traffic etc.
Additionally, there is the option to skip through intervals so a long “buffer” interval could also be inserted and the user skips to the work section as soon as she/he is ready.

#6

Oh excellent I did not know about this pause feature. Actually that is a better way to do it because you don’t need to design your workouts to specifically deal with it. Yes we will add this to TP as soon as we can and definitly try to have it before the weather starts getting nicer in the northern hemisphere…

#7

That option would probably be enough for premium users of TP.

I’m using the free TP subscription right now (cannot justify premium with limited training time due to family and work), so for me personally this option should be available in the “Send to” menu of a workout - maybe as “TrainingPeaks (Outdoor)”. What do you think?

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#8

Ok Joschka, we added .plan file support :slight_smile: You can read a little more and see it here.

#9

We currently are downloading the indoor version for wahoo but we need to add support for simplifying the outdoor version still. We need to improve our Garmin algorythm and then put the same thing here.

#10

It’s also possible our new TrainingPeaks calendar sync feature is even the better way to go for Wahoo users as it does not require file transfers, and although better with TP premium it is not required.

#11

Hi Alex,
This is great news! I just looked up the new links in the web UI and am eager to try it out.
Currently I’m on a forced break from training due to illness :slightly_frowning_face:
Two questions:

  1. Do the plan files contain cadence and target ranges (instead of fixed target values)?
  2. You mentioned the updated TrainingPeaks sync, I reconnected my account and saw the message about sync for today and tomorrow - is this now fully automated using the TrainerDay calendar as source?

Thanks for adding these features!

#12
  1. I will review and add it if it is not there
  2. Yes calendar is 100% automatic

You are welcome :slight_smile:

#13

Confirmed: I just tried it and got the correct cadence range for the SFR workout displayed on my ELEMNT v2 - really great! :partying_face: The power target is displayed as percentage for the upcoming interval and as absolute value during the interval (for the TP sync it displayed the target wattage in both notification and interval target).

The auto-sync via TrainingPeaks worked flawlessly (did my first workout after the break, today) but now I will use the downloaded *.plan files for my workouts in May.

#14

Great news thanks for checking. I assume we can switch to watts in the .plan file too. I agree that is better. We did the same with Garmin. If it works like Garmin the problem is you have to regenerate your plan files everytime your FTP changes but I still feel that is better than seeing percent on your device. We will research and change this. Thanks again.

#15

On the contrary, I think it’s a matter of personal preference. I have my BOLT configured to show percentage of FTP while riding along with the color associated with the zone. Having absolute values wouldn’t help me, as I assume the feeling of a specific zone/percentage should be the same if the FTP has changed.
EDIT: keeping percentages would also save the effort of re-uploading the files to the BOLT in case your FTP setting is changed in the Wahoo app.
Having target ranges is not crucial for me, I can control the range myself (I train outdoor exclusively).

So my vote is: keep it as it is now :slight_smile:

#16

I fully agree with you, although In the past we had % with Garmin and I got lots of complaints but with Watts I don’t have any complaints so I think most want watts but I agree with your thinking completely on both thinking and strategy.

#17

Hi Alex,

Due to a full week I had to reorder my workouts in the TD calendar and enabled the TP sync for convenience reasons. The sync went fine and I got my workout on my Wahoo BOLT v2 in the morning - really nice. :slight_smile:
During the workout (SFR #7) I noticed that the cadence targets were included for the work intervals but apparently not for the other intervals, so the BOLT kept displaying 35-45 rpm as target cadence. I haven’t had the time to check the synced *.plan file but from my manually created *.plan files I know that it keeps the last target values until new values are defined in an interval. So setting the target range for the rest intervals to e.g., 90-100 rpm could be an easy fix.
Cheers,
Joschka

#18

Oh interesting. The problem is some people ride at 60rpm naturally. I know a fast guy that does about 60-65. Granted he is 77 :slight_smile: but winning races for his age group. So would probably need to be 60-110 to capture almost everyones natural cadence. The other problem is this would affect people on all platforms and it is not ideal to make up a cadence when it is not necessary. It would be easier to do this in the .plan files but I realize TP sync is much nicer for most. I will think on this.