Bora Hansgrohe Performance Testing

1

This is obviously dated (I think is from at least 5 years ago) but I came across this yesterday and thought it was worth sharing. I don’t plan to do the test though :slight_smile:

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For average people I think you could probably skip the 10 and 30 second max efforts. CP3, CP10, and the 8 minutes at FTP effort would be enough.

I think a lot of people would probably get the 8 minute FTP effort wrong as there’d be a tendency to overdo it. They specifically say that you should not look at the power meter, just try to ride at the tipping point between sustainable/unsustainable for 8 minutes.

I’m not quite sure what you’d do with the CP3 and CP10 though. Maybe take all 3 figures along w/the FTP effort and figure out CP/W’? If so the FTP would need to be CP20. Or maybe better yet do a CP20 a couple days after this. Or maybe this is all just benchmarking so do it today, in 6 months, in a year, etc… and see if you are improving?

Such as: Critical Power Calculator — High North Performance

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Dave

2

So, there’s different calculation methods, but ultimately, CP/W’ Curve is defined by the model and a curve fit. It’s taking all those points and trying to find the best curve. So theoretically, more points, better curve. The old Sufferfest 4DP, or even Wahoo, I think still has it, is similar. And Xert has their own model version of this as well.

It’s all just different modeling. But at the end of the day, if you want to know the answer to the question, just go as hard as you can and find out. Obviously, the longer duration, the harder. 60 Minutes all out is pretty tough.

I’d say the primary advantage of any of this stuff is estimating something and then deciding if it’s true. The coach gives specific intervals that’s supposed to get close to breaking you, based on a model.

So, I don’t think for you it’s overly necessary, but it might be a fun test.

3

I am not sure how often that test would be used - it seems like more of an initial assessment type of protocol.

Here is John Wakefield on the Roadman podcast just a few weeks ago, talking about the submaximal test protocol.

“The Fatigue Test Most Coaches Are Not Running

Wakefield calls it the submaximal fatigue test. The protocol is built off Lambert’s research, refined by his team at Science to Sport.

Three minutes at a fixed power. Anywhere from threshold to 110% of threshold, prescribed by the coach. The test slots into the first ten minutes of whatever session is on the plan that day. Recovery ride, intervals, long endurance — does not matter. You do the three minutes, fill in a short questionnaire after (RPE, time to exertion, sleep, mood, bodyweight, training load), and carry on with your day.

Then you do it again seven to ten days later.

What it gives you is the thing every amateur cyclist actually wants and almost nobody measures. It tells you whether your training stimulus is working. Not in six weeks at a lab. Now. This week.

Wakefield says when athletes report honestly, the data is almost bulletproof. You can see whether you are progressing, whether you have plateaued, or whether you are quietly digging a hole that will surface as a bad result in three weeks. It also catches the rider who is unconsciously fudging their RPE — the metrics stop correlating, you have a conversation, the plan adjusts.

This is the kind of thing the WorldTour does not consider fancy. Bora are running it. UAE were running it before him. Most amateurs are not. We pay for HRV apps, sleep scores, glucose monitors, and ignore one of the most useful three minutes you could spend in a week.”

The full piece is here

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I have talked to a lot of elites and most of the really strong ones I know don’t test. Andrea says the pros he knows hate tests and avoid at all cost. I have always tried to look at submaximal. Maf tests :slight_smile: This is where it is at, test me on my Sunday drive :slight_smile: throw the power meter on the beach bike….

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Correct.

This is from when they were trying to get money from amatures from what I remember… train like a pro.

It was marketing and the hope of a revenue stream.

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There is a long thread on the TR forum titled “Pro/Elite training”.

I’m only a lurker over the past few years and never a poster and this thread pre-dates my lurking, but there’s tons and tons of analysis of pro riders ride files on Strava. The main guy who posted it was evidently a data scientist who developed some automation to extract the data from Strava and present it in graphical form.

The conclusion from 1,000+ posts and who knows how many ride files appears to be summarized as simply “ride a lot with some stuff”. That’s it.

The main guy said in summary:

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Dave

7

They train. Every week their coach gives them a list of what to do and most follow it at varying levels… but yes some of training just looks like riding…. It’s not 6 hours of VO2 max intervals :slight_smile: But proper volume control, general intensity focus, and recovery are the most important, their workouts probably never look like an ERG workout and most “secret” workouts do not end up in strava or public places. Zone 2/3 long ride with some climbs is a common training session… just like everyone else that lives in an area with elevation changes…

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This probably points out that a lot more effort goes into trying to figure out what to do when the real benefit is “doing”.

My outside rides when only looking at bikes with power meters end up with a nice pyramidal distribution and it is completely accidental. I’m not trying to accumulate time in zones 4, 5, or 6 but it happens due to terrain.

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Dave

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For most, that’s all that needs to be said…

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