Coach Jack - Creating a better outdoor experience

Hi Alex, as far as I’m concerned I think that the lap solution for the main job is the best, not because I already use it, inserting it manually also in Jack’s plans. but because it allows you to reach the optimal working point before starting the main job. the same also applies to the transition from primary to secondary employment.
thanks Whitefox1.

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ciao Alex, quando pensi di poter rilasciare la nuova versione di Jack in cui si possono scegliere programmi fatti per l’indoor o per l’aperto per Garmin?
e come ti avevo chiesto, la possibilità di differenziare esercizi da fare in pianura da quelli da fare in salita?
con l’inserimento anche del tasto lap che ti permette di spostarti da un percorso in pianura fino a raggiungere la salita o viceversa.
non so se è presente in qualche argomento del forum, ma attualmente dopo che è stato creato il piano da Jack, gli allenamenti per garmin quando superano le 50 righe vengono eliminati nel momento in cui invio a garmin il programma, cosa si può fare per evitare questo problema?

sorry, I forgot the translator. :grinning: :grinning:
hi Alex, when do you think you can release the new version of Jack where you can choose programs made for indoor or outdoor for Garmin?
and as I asked you, the possibility of differentiating exercises to be done on the flat from those to be done uphill?
with the inclusion of the lap button that allows you to move from a path on the plain until you reach the slope or vice versa.
I don’t know if it is present in some forum topic, but currently after the plan is created by Jack, workouts for garmin when they exceed 50 lines are deleted when I send garmin the program, what can be done to avoid this problem?
thank you.

And sorry, I have been too busy to post updates. Yes we will slowly launch this stuff but we have two important items DONE NOW.

See lap button here.

We also reduce the # of steps for Coach Jack workouts for some of the workouts but this still needs more work. I hope this will be done in the next week.

grazie per la risposta Alex, poco fa ho creato un nuovo piano, e nell’inviarlo al garmin, non sono stati inviati i file che superavano le 50 righe, prima le troncava, ma li inviava troncati, ora non le invia più, è un’errore oppure è stato fatto volutamente in questo modo, perchè non mi pare aver avuto nessuna segnalazione durante l’invio che questi file non venivano inviati. e siccome ho inviato le prime 4 settimane di un piano di 16, ha completato i file mancanti con quelli delle settimane successive fino ad arrivare ai 20 file per 4 settimane. spero di essere stato chiaro.

thanks for the answer Alex, a little while ago I created a new plan, and in sending it to garmin, the files that exceeded 50 lines were not sent, before he truncated them, but he sent them truncated, now he does not send them anymore, it is a 'error or it was deliberately done in this way, because I do not think I had any report during sending that these files were not sent. and since I sent the first 4 weeks of a plan of 16, it completed the missing files with those of the following weeks up to 20 files for 4 weeks. I hope I was clear.
thank you.

This is very clear. I am not sure why it is an error now, maybe Garmin changed something. It should be truncated. We should have this all fixed this week or next week. I will let you know here.

  1. Reduce # of steps to less than 50
  2. Truncate if Garmin creates an error for < 50 :slight_smile:

Now the 50 step problem should be better (hopefully 100% fixed). See below. Lap button press for warmup and see secondary work

This is ONLY for Coach Jack workouts not for other workouts. Eventually we could enhance workouts from the main TrainerDay as well.

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Hi all

Just wondering if there has been any progress with simplifying workouts for outside? Looking at my plan i’ve some 3 hour plus rides coming up that will be VERY diffucult to follow outside but which would be fine for indoors (but who wants to sit on a turbo trainer for 3hrs).

We have improved the garmin experience (simpified the secondary work and added lap button for warmup), but since we don’t know how people are going to use the plans it’s hard to design a plan that works well for both indoor and outdoor at the same time. Once we launch a dynamic version of Coach Jack it will be very possible to do this.

As an example if you are going to do 6 hours 1 week if it is all indoor vs all outdoor then all workouts should be adjusted a little to compensate for the difference. Right now, you can just disable the long ride option and it will shorten your weekend rides for example so if you know you are all indoor then don’t select the long ride option. The other idea is just shorten your long rides if they are indoor and maybe try to split the hours of two medium lengthed indoor weekend rides.

Do you have an idea of what would work for you personally? Are you some weeks 100% indoor and some weeks you have outdoor?

Thanks for the reply. I’ve been off the bike for 6-8 weeks due to illness so will be starting base next week.

In the UK it’s wet at the moment so I’ll mainly be riding indoors to do my intervals which will continue until probably March time. Where possible my long Sunday ride will be outdoors though. If I do manage to ride outside on other days then it’ll be completely unstructured, easy riding to supplement the planned ‘work’.

In terms of completing a session outside if the session includes a block of sweetspot it would be easier if it was exactly that ie; 3x15 min blocks at sweetspot. It doesn’t need to exactly match the indoor equivalent but should simply have a similar amount of time in zone.

Thanks, Dan

Hi Alex, as far as I’m concerned, my workouts will be 97% outdoors, as I asked, it would be important to diversify at the beginning of the questions if you want an outdoor or indoor program. so it is important for me and others who may come out to have this chance. I who train 14-16 hours a week it is important to have this possibility also connected to the fact that garmin does not accept a number of lines> 50. I saw that you have inserted blocks ranging from 30 to 50 minutes for long exits , this is not the best, maybe if you can vary more while remaining in the 50 lines rather than making only 10 where there are very long blocks. I hope I have clearly stated the thought. thank you

Oh yes, you are right sorry about that. We will add more variability ASAP. This should be able to be improved next week.

Hi Dan, actually our sweet spot workouts are called sweet spot progressions and broken into two pieces main work and secondary work. We leave the main work exactly the same for indoor and outdoor the secondary work just has a intensity target and we mostly keep that intact for the simplified outdoor workouts. In the beginning of our plans especially if you start at level one, the main work is short and mild but as you will see later in the plan the main work can take 45 minutes or more in some cases. So our sweet spot are not like trainerroads at all. We are not doing long harder sweet spot durations at the beginning of the plan and even at the end they are “reasonably” longer efforts. But as Giancarlo pointed out for some users like him we made those last blocks too simple (meaning very long single focused efforts efforts).

Does this make sense? It’s not always obvious what is main work or secondary work until you start to understand our workouts. But in the beginning the main work can be like 10 minutes or less.

Can you post a link or something to explain the primary and secondary work? Also, are you able to post a screen shot of a workout simplified for outdoor use? Many thanks, Dan.

Towards the bottom of this page I explain.

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I will post something showing the idea of simplified seconary tomorrow around this time but it is becoming clear we need to improve our new simplification algorithm which we will do soon.

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Here you can see the difference, the problem is we did super simplification, we need to improve the logic to make it more interesting and give some more short rests :slight_smile: either that or for secondary work we could just say Zone 3 target or a wide range meaning you can ride how you want in the secondary but try to generally hit a target of say upper Zone 2 for example.

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Thanks Alex. I can only speak from a personal perspective but I don’t think it needs to be that ‘interesting’ for outside use. The being outside part offers plenty of interest and given that you still need to follow the power numbers manually (not having the benefit of ERG) it shouldn’t be too complex.

Yes, you are thinking like I have been, that is why we created this simplified mode but I guess part of the problem is not so much interesting but people just feel it is long sustained, so when I say interesting I just mean a little more varied. I always thought this secondary work with just be kind of a placeholder but some people want something more perscriptive. But thanks for your perspective. I think other platforms and coaches tended to focus on perfecting the whole working, we are follow a pro-rider approach that you nail the main work perfectly and secondary work is secondary :slight_smile: