Feature request for average power display in the workout creator tool

Feature Requests
#1

Hey Alex…

Might it be possible to display the current average watts for the workout?
Coach asks me to hit certain average watt targets for specific workouts but I cant see a way of displaying this during a workout?

Or maybe when creating my workouts would it be possible for that metric to be added such that is shows along side stress score and intensity possibly?

Would be a very useful metric for me to be able to see on creating workouts and during workouts.

This may well be possible and I’ve overlooked it… if so point me in the right direction :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance as always…
James

#2

We are working on our broadcast feature. We could add it there but then you need to open a web page on a pc or something to view it. Would that work?

#3

Unfortunately I use my phone and broadcast to the apple TV for workouts. I don’t even own a PC :slight_smile:

Would it be possible to just add it when it’s created so I know beforehand and can tweak the workout prior?
That would solve the issue for me for sure…

#4

Ok I don’t exactly understand your suggested solution but I can see it would be more complex than just allowing to click on HR :slight_smile: Clicking on HR switches to interval average watts now, and could have a third option of workout average watts.

What I don’t understand is if your coach is prescribing specific average for the workout why not just create a workout that averages this? Are you not using ERG mode? You also could create a workout with a single interval (or use the default warmup with auto-extend) and just use + - to control intensity then our current interval average would be the same as workout average.

#5

Hey Alex

So I might have missed something in the creator…

I can’t see anywhere that tells me the average power for a created workout.

So I’m always set for example the interval power I have to reach… but the recovery period between intervals is up to me.

What I need to see in theory when I’m creating a session is the average power for the session such that if it’s too low I can raise the power on the recovery segments such that the overall average is raised.
But at the minute I can’t see anywhere that tells me what that average is?

Ignore the during workout stuff for the min… :slight_smile:

What would be great is alongside “time” “stress” and Intensity” on the attached pic it would show average power.

Hope that makes a little more sense…

This is a typical session where he’s set the intervals but I set recovery based on what average power he wants me to hit for the session…
If the average power was too lowI would raise the power on the recovery segments. But at the minute I can’t see the average power anywhere…

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#6

Oh I did not understand what you wanted at all :slight_smile: Good news because intensity is normalized power, which is very similar and probably better than average power. So this is 88% of your FTP.

#7

Ok… so if I’m right, using that method I should have an average power of 235.84w for that workout.
However my average power was 207w or 223w weighted on completion according to Final Surge.

Not sure if the conversion is wrong that I’ve done or…?
My intensity score in Final Surge is 0.87 so the same pretty much.

#8

Most people feel that normalized power is a better indication of training effort. Maybe you should ask your coach about normalized power versus average power and if he is ok with you using a normalized target rather than average. They are different for sure, it’s just most people don’t use average. Normalized should be the same as weighted, so sounds like final surge is doing something strange or I just don’t understand what they are doing. So no you are right if you want to average power this is a new request but since it is the first time it has been requested we can’t build features for specific users.

It’s possible you could create your workouts in golden cheetah and they might have an average power feature. Then you export and import to trainerday. Definitly less convienient. You also can get a feel that the more ups and downs you have in power, so especially stuff over 100% of FTP you willl get a bigger difference between normalized and average. So vo2max workouts are probably 10% off for example, so you could just adjust them. I would say exact precision on average power is un-necessary but your coach might have his own ideas on this :slight_smile:

#9

There are 3 average power which are monitored by coaches or self coached athletes.

a) Average Power with zero values
Is quite important for outdoor rides e.g. if you coast downhill, your Average Power will decrease.

b) Average Power without zero values
Is less important.

c) Weighted Average Power e.g. NP, CP
is more important e.g. to calculate training stress.

Other useful metrics exist as Intensity Factor or Variability Index.

For sophisticated analysis you may use Training Peaks, Strava, Xert, Golden Cheetah (for free).

Please keep Trainer Day simple.

#10

Thanks Rolf, yes, we all want simple but our own version of simple :slight_smile: so 100 versions of simple in one product is not so simple… but don’t worry our goal is to make it more simple/clean in 2023.

I am not so aware of the use of average power in indoor workout creation. But yes I analysis is another mater. I don’t understand the purpose of creating target average power for a planned workout. Meaning a workout should have a physiological purpose, for example z2 aerobic or Vo2max intervals and some coaches are targeting specific tss goals which uses normalized power and time. I guess there are a million coaches all with different ways of working.

#11

Workout creation: I completely agree in

  • focus e.g. on specific zones e.g. Z2 or VO2max,…
  • You may want to reach certain TSS goals (indoors and outdoors)

I can’t see it in GoldenCheetah V3.6 from July 2022: avrg Power, Stress Score,…
But W’ is available in the Workout Editor as well as in Trainer Day.

#12

Hey… yes absolutely…

I’m not wanting to complicate it any further than being told what theoretical average power is for a workout I’ve created. I didn’t actually think I was asking a lot as the likes of Rouvy or Zwift tell you what it is.

I’m sure there will be a spreadsheet somewhere I can just put the numbers in and it will give me an average value…

That’s all I’m asking.
I shall stop pestering and find an alternative method… all good

#13

Yes it would be easy to copy and paste to excel and get the average. And copy and paste back. Adding every additional field adds complexity even though it seems like a small request. I really try to understand and consider each request.

#14

Honestly its no problem Alex… Its not a regular thing I need to do its just every so often.
I just do what I’m told and use the tools available to do it :slight_smile:

Close this out if you like.

#15

We can leave it, you never know it could turn into something :slight_smile:

#16

Hi James, I created a quick 2-minute video for you to show you how simple this is using our workout editor and microsoft Excel.

Here is the spreadsheet I used in this example.
https://shared-web.s3.amazonaws.com/trainerday/forum/AvgWorkoutPower.xlsx

Hope this solves your problem :slight_smile:

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