I’m newer to cycling, but have been doing endurance running for a little while. I tested my FTP when I started cycling and got 245.
However, now as I complete coach jacks workouts, my heart rate seems to be too low for the intensity I expect. Eg. VO2 max session today my heart rate maxed out at 140. It seems as though I won’t be achieving the desired adaptions from a VO2 max workout with such a low heart rate. My easier workouts have a heart rate around 115. For context, my max heart rate is 193.
Do I need to wait for my leg strength to match my cardiovascular ability? Should I retest my FTP? Any advice is welcome! Thanks
Hi. Starting with 245 is nice So there is three different concepts to this response
First
So, we once had a customer like you that they had a strong disconnect between HR and power. So because of this, this guy could ride for hours at 90% of his FTP. It sounds like in your case you might be aerobically very strong but that is not represented in your FTP.
Second
Our workouts are a bit different in that we start easy and build to hard. Each week is preperation for the following week, so the intial goal is not to push you to very hard VO2max efforts. All this said it sounds a bit too easy.
So the initial VO2max workouts will generally start easy but if you can send me the link from your activities page from TrainerDay to show me the workout or put a screenshot here that would help.
Third
VO2max efforts are limited or strongly affected by your anaerobic work capacity (AWC or W’) more than your aerobic capacity. So Coach Jack does not factor in your W’ at this time, but few apps actually build workoouts based on W’ most use FTP like ours. So if you have a high W’ you also might need harder workouts. You could press the + button in our app to dial in the intensity a bit for example. I realize this is not optimum.
I don’t explain much more detail here but I talk about this exact problem in this video.
It seems like it might just be #1 that is the issue, or a combination of all 3. In general doing less intensity / stress tends to be doing too much so this is not that bad but you could try out the last VO2max from your sequence and just do a bit and see how that feels. You can just copy it and add it to your library.
Yes, you have a disconnect from power to HR, meaning your body does. I actually think this is lucky, but I don’t know the overall effect on performance. You should probably just increase your FTP by 15% or so, even though it is accurate this will put you in a better zone for training. If you are using ramp test for FTP you might want to try a 20 minute test some time to see if it is similar.
repeats were at 170w. Legs felt tired by the end, cardiovascularly my breathing didn’t change much. RPE was probably about a 3, maybe 4 after my 170w repeats, but really that’s based on how my legs felt.
I’m using Jacks polarized plan, so I want to make sure I’m not pushing it to much, but also not too little. Thanks!
So zone 2 is best measured by breathing test in that you can hold a conversation without much trouble. Tired legs also depends on how adapted to this length of ride you are. Generally this seems fine to me, we have the belief that it’s a bit better to be a little under than over but also for “optimum” everything is “it depends.” If you normally go on 4 hour rides and a 2 hour zone 2 ride feels hard than I would say it is too hard but breathing test should be accurate enough.
Ok great. I’ll work from that. I now realize that it’s likely not uncommon for running heart rates and cycling heart rates to differ somewhat. Going by feel for awhile seems like a pretty good option.
I feel like the forum heel sometimes as my perspective formed by my training experience does not match the forum’s orthodoxy.
One of Coggan’s quotes is, “If you know your power, then at best heart rate is redundant, but at worst it is misleading.” I’m starting to find this has some truth for me.
I’ve done the same exact workout (interval number, duration, and % of FTP) a total of 11 times now since the new year and have done other minor variations of it another 3 times.
Among the 11 workouts: Power is through ERG mode so it is consistent, intensity factor is exactly 82%. My RPE is also consistent, it is 6/10 or “Difficult” in intervals.icu speak 9 times. HR is not consistent at all. Std deviation for average HR is ±6 and for max HR is ± 4. It is not uncommon to see swings of 8 BPM within a week and the swings seem more/less random.
I’m finding very little use for HR as an analysis tool for indoor trainer rides.
Is this what Ric Flair would feel like if he rode a bike?
I expect that if you doubled / tripled the duration of one of those regular power controlled workouts, then HR might take on a bit more significance in the post ride analysis.
Starting out in Z3 power with Z3 HR and ending in Z3 power with Z4 (or 5) HR can be done if you keep pedalling for long enough.
Sometimes that is the aim of the workout. Sometimes it isn’t.
HR can also be used to control workouts in a couple of ways.
full control, ride at X bpm
governance, cap HR at X bpm by managing effort, or stop the workout if HR reaches X
I can make the case for power controlled workouts and both types of HR controlled workouts as part of an overall training programme.
Just like you don’t need ERG, you can train just fine outside without a power meter or a heart rate monitor, only RPE. HR is just like ERG it just makes it easier to do some tasks. You seem to want some justification as to why to not do HR workouts. Just don’t do them. Totally unnecessary.
I don’t see any difference between training by power or training by HR. Meaning, obviously there is a difference, but one just means variable power and one means variable HR. But if the variability ends up being the same in both cases, then they’re the same workout. People that may be recovery compromised probably will likely benefit by focusing on RPE more. And people that can really grind might do better with power because it might motivate them to push a bit harder at the right time.
In variable intensity workouts in particular, maybe ERG mode is better at holding power close to target, than the athlete is at holding HR close to target?
But that is a tiny difference in terms of the outcome of the workout.
So there is three different concepts to this response
If you normally go on 4 hour rides and a 2 hour zone 2 ride feels hard than I would say it is too hard but breathing test should be accurate enough.