HR mode - restrict maximum power

Feature Requests
1

When in HR mode, it could be nice to be able to restrict the power, both lower and max, though max power is more important.

Sometimes HR mode goes too far up in power for my liking on the day, almost no matter how low I set the HR target. This also can create that it dives too much after, and then if unlucky creates these kinds of swings in the power where it jumps up and down quite a lot - always trying to fix my HR

Setting a limit of max power would solve this problem for good, for people knowing both their HR and Power zones

Or/And make an ERG mode, where power is in a defined window - So I can just bike away like in HR mode. Yes, I can do something like that manually by creating a workout, but could be nice with an automatic mode.

Both the HR and ERG versions explained above, could be helpful for a very controlled and automatic workout.

PS: if this is already possible in some way, please point me in the right direction :slight_smile:

2

I try to really save more settings for the most critical stuff, but considering how much people love this HR mode it might be worth it, especially if this is a common problem. I think it is more a problem of people that don’t breath deep and consistent and stay in mostly a single position on the bike (this probably constitutes most cyclists, me for sure)… But I am sure there are others (possibly yourself) that HR is just more dynamic in nature…

Can you send me a screenshot of what it looks like and some kind of description so I can visualize the problem? Let me make sure I fully understand.

We actually have some max power stuff in the code, and originally I set it a more tight range and for some people it worked great others it did not so I had to loosen the limits.I totally appreciate the idea and understand the need. The only problem I see is that it’s more like it needs to be a max power based on percent of HR or something, which makes it more confusing. While I believe 90% of the value in our HR function is “Zone 2” or maf zone or whatever you call it, others like to train in other zones and targets. Describing it as 50% (or X%) above HR threshold % makes it very confusing… But maybe there is a simple way to describe it.

3

I don’t know if you have access to our completed workouts, but you can see what I’m talking about in today’s first workout - if not I can send it to you.

I don’t think you have to adjust anything per se, because it works perfectly for some, and for others like me, it’s off sometimes, but not always - and the concept is 100% spot on!

If there could just be a setting that could overrule/make settings for max power in HR mode, I would prefer that.

For example, set my hr target to middle hr zone 2 and then a max power, in my upper power zone 2 - to stay in true power/hr zone 2 - which hr mode is perfect for, zone 2 training.

Sometimes it goes too far up in Power Zone 3, even with a HR target in lower Zone 2, and it also stays there too long, if the heart rate dropped too much. Even higher once in a while for me, today it was in my Zone 4 power multiple times, and way too long in middle/high zone 3 with an HR target in the middle/lower of HR Zone 2

I know what I’m capable of, like many others, so setting a target HR and a max power, would create a perfect zone 2 workout, every time.

For this in ERG mode, its just a mode where you set a max and a minimum power and it dances within that area until you stop - again could create a pretty perfect workout, that would feel a bit like HR mode.

I would prefer the HR mode solution, but I actually think both solutions could/should be developed, as they can be used a bit different.

Both modes if setup as explained can be used for whatever type of workout people want, im just using zone 2 to explain it.

4

You can just copy the link from the website that is easiest for me. You can post it here or to private PM to me. This is fastest. Finding it takes a bit of time. I will respond tomorrow to the rest.

1 Like
5

This is a very interesting concept, and is something perfectly tailored to my situation. I was looking to see if this feature had been implemented, but I don’t think it has. Using the HR+ feature with a user set max power cap within HR+.

I’ve been working my way through a serious sleep issue and am on the cusp of breaking through. As I look forward, I have to be very careful to not overload myself prematurely and tank my HRV, RHR, Sleep Eff etc. This has already happened a few times and set me back. I was using the HR+ feature and on a good day with my HR capped, the power would ramp up too much and after a day or two, send my biometrics spiraling. Sure it felt great to see the power numbers higher than the previous few days/weeks, but I ended up paying the price.

@Alex my solution has been to just stay in ERG mode and monitor it very conservatively in ride. I know this is likely a one-off use case for me, but I have seen there are more and more users coming to the platform for the specific purpose of HR+ who are cardiac patients.

In “other options” there is a setting for HR Threshold, would it be possible to add a Power Threshold in settings too that could apply to HR+? Not sure this is something worth your time or effort and I can totally accomplish this on my own manually, but if it appeals to enough users, maybe worth considering it.

I guess this would fall into the Feature Request category.

6

I can see why people want this and I am all for TD exploring ways to further improve HR+

I don’t know how hard it would be to implement and to use a power cap in conjunction with HR+.

The system would have to look at two targets (HR and power) and switch between which one was the primary one to enable both to be respected.

Imagine if the HR+ target is 130 bpm and the power cap is 150 watts

Say a rider on a good day starts hitting 150 watts below the HR target. How far below 130 bpm could HR fall to at the power cap watts before the HR+ target was totally meaningless?

When is a HR+ not a HR+ ride?

7

So two options I see are both using FTP% below as a cap (60% power cap in my example)

  1. Control Mode = hr+pwr-cap so individual segments have control

  2. No new control mode but just a user setting in the app limit HR+ based on interval FTP%

image
image1142Ă—180 16.8 KB

I fully see the value of this. My biggest struggles are that it adds more complexity although option 2 affects less people. And second it would likely take 10 years to get the ROI :slight_smile: It’s not so complex to implement (famous last words).

8

Personally I believe for everyone the nature of HR+ “zone 2” is the same. zone 2 is designed to be easy, with lower stress on the body is the goal while still providing aerobic benefit. Pros or guys with 300 to 350w+ FTPs it may not feel that easy but still lower stress. I assume for you zone 2 HR is not totally easy.

So power should always be capped in this case. Just because I can crank 800w for 3sec and keep my HR below 120bpm starting rested at 80bpm… does not mean it is easy. So for some people with hr / power disconnects they might need a 60% power cap in addition to an HR target on different days and especially during a warmup.

9

I had a similar request a while back:

I’ve not really been doing much for zone 2 / HR+ style workouts lately though.

Dave

10

Not sure how this could best and easily be accomplished. I’m not much for coding.

I can think of a few options to throw out there and see if any could be easily accomplished.

  1. Could a max power setting in the app just apply across the board to all activities. Or maybe a toggle switch in settings that’s either on/off. Then a user sets the target. Not sure what effect this might have.
  2. Could the end user create their own workout in the workout creator tool, and somehow apply a power cap for that created workout. Being a user created workout, they could just go in and modify it on their own if/when they see fit. This would eliminate what i imagine is a complex coding issue that applies to all users across the entire app.
11

Yes I showed your option #2 above, this is by far the most flexible, that each interval could have it’s own power limits. The FTP % right now in HR+ mode does not do anything except a visual reference, this could turn it into a power limit in a special mode.

12

This sounds like a good option. I know right now in the workout creator, the %FTP cell is a bit confusing for a lot of people. Or at least I imagine it is because it took me a bit to understand that it did nothing. When I created workouts in HR+ mode it would plug a value in I think. Later I realized I could manipulate that to any number and while it didn’t matter for the workout itself, other apps would see that in the calendar (Intervals –> Hexis Live) as either a hard workout or easy workout and map out the fueling strategy.