New Coach Jack Feature: Indoor Long Rides

So our Coach Andrea is a biomechanics expert… I mean really an expert… :slight_smile: He feels that people should not do more a maximum of 60-90 minutes at a time on an indoor trainer, due to the negative stresses that are imposed on the body. Maybe rocker plates and more dynamic movements you could extend this a bit…

So if you can’t do your long rides outside then either shorten them or break them into multiple sessions. We have added a feature that splits long rides into multiple rides. See below.

This is still a work in progress and will be improved in the next couple days. For example the second workout should not be called HIIT in this example.

This is part of Andrea’s lab…


Once within a CJ plan, Is there a way to edit an individual workout? I generally want to do longer rides outside but if its raining on the day I have a longer ride planned, being able to edit that one planned longer ride and ‘split’ it into two shorter indoor rides would be great. If this is not a possibility, I suppose one could always delete the longer outdoor ride and manually add a couple of shorter indoor rides.

1 Like

Yes, exactly, that is the right idea. We want be able to do that. We should add split workout to the calendar. It would be a great feature. Yeah now you have to do it manually.

1 Like

Out of curiosity, and I’m far from well-read with the science, how does this effect endurance workout outcomes? In my understanding a lot of the benefits of longer endurance rides comes from the length of the ride so upwards of 2-3+ hours in one go. By splitting that up into short rides you lose those benefits - so is there still any point of doing indoor endurance in short bursts, other than just to “pad out” your TSS? :grinning:

1 Like

Usually I feel I know the a reasonable answer but in this case I know Coach Andrea said it is better to split them but I am not sure on the detriment to the aerobic benefit. Let me ask on this one. Excellent question. I love your thought/concept “TSS paddling :)”

1 Like

Ok I am both “trainerday” and Alex :slight_smile: I talked to Andrea and to be honest sadly there a bit of my answer is TSS padding. The real solution is get outside and do a long ride… but I realize that is not reality at times.

Andrea feels there is a noticble difference between 3 hours and 90+90 but since there is no studies that have compared this and he has not been involved with any testing himself anything he would say would just be a guess. So instead of doing 90+90 just do the 90 and you probably get 70% (guess) of the value or something and less risk of mental anguish, and biomechanical damage.

Really as we talked about it, he said he thinks 90 is maxiumum single ride indoors and if you are doing mulitple it would be better to do 60+60 and keep that as a limit but 90+90 would be max, max from his perspective.

In a couple weeks I am going to have my developer make some enhancements to to this as well as a recommendation that people put a limiter of 180 minutes on their long days indoors. If you are mixing indoors and outdoors then it’s almost like you need two plans or a way to split on the calendar. Split 60s or Split 90s.

1 Like

Thank you, yes that all makes sense… moral of the story: do your endurance rides outdoors unless it’s impossible!

1 Like

I realized one more concept. I paid close attention to the Maffetone FB in the past which is a bunch of people obsessed with testing aerobic performance. I being one of them. Pace vs hr at strict AeT HR. And many others as well as myself found that doubling the number sessions per week with same total time seemed to clearly correlate to increased aerobic function.

So since maybe it is better than our guess but I say you have to try it, with lots of consistency and testing to get a feel for this. I ran 100 days in a row strictly below AeT for example.

Andrea shared more… I told him about the Maffetone concept and his long rides are Z2/Z3, but if we are talking fully Z2 then his statement is this.

Probably endurance adaptation in z2 are “volume dependent” and “session indipendent”… using mainly fat permit energetically very long session without fatigue.

Meaning that for pure Z2 with very little fatigue then breaking them up is fine. If you are comparing a semi-fatigue or fatigue based Z2/Z3 ride then single long ride versus multiple are likely fairly different.

One thing about an evidence-based coach/scientist is is if he is not sure on an answer or their is no good studies to support it one way other the other he is very clear to say this is his guess or opinion.

Ok so these guys have one of the best labs and research in the sports world. Meaning a multi-billion dollar company that is in love with and a heritage of sports performance, and with a deep interest in cycling performance.

He asked his head of research. See response below.

The biggest problem is boredom ::wink: Also suggests 2 hours between workouts. We will improve our algorithm to do 60 minute splits in a few weeks.

1 Like

Ah that’s really helpful to know their opinions, and how it all pans out… Thanks!

1 Like

I am glad I have a Rock n Roll trainer as I am always doing 2 or more hours indoor, Z2, a a time. It is a great time to catch up TV and YouTube watching. I stand for 1 minute every 10-15 minutes.

Can we elaborate on the “…negative stresses that are imposed on the body.” please?

On the topic, It has been said that Eddy Merckx did 5 hour indoor sessions staring at a wall to “toughen” himself up.

It’s just a highly repetitive movement. Cycling has this problem anyway but it’s significantly increased indoors on static trainer. Lots of people do lots of stuff that is not the healthiest choices but still get good results.

Let me ask Andrea for a more detailed answer though. Personally I am not as passionate about these limits, meaningI I don’t see 2-hours as the end of the world but at the same time the negatives may offset the positives enough. I am also not anywhere close to the expert he is. Like my opinion does not or should not matter :slight_smile:

Not to mention the long term risks associated with highly repetitive movements. Like carpal tunnel for mouse users, it can take years of over use to see/feel the problems. I discussed with him before but not in much depth.

Long ride is life !

1 Like