Power Match refinement

Feature Requests
#1

Hi Alex

Super happy with how slope mode is working for me and this is what I will use most of the time.

However sometimes it is nice to have a bit of a change and so I have been using Erg mode and it is not quite working for me like it used to on TR.

My Neo 2 over reads compared to my Assioma Duo’s at endurance power. At sweet spot they are sort of similar and then at Vo2 the Neo under reads compared to my Assioma.

So jumping from 40% recovery to 120% intervals really kills me as the power match takes about 30 seconds of about 130-140% effort before it recalibrates the power match off set to bring me down to 120%.

Is it possible for the power match algorithm to be reworked such that it is a bit more responsive?

Many thanks for all your help.

Karl

#2

There is a bug going from slope mode to erg with power match, but yes we also need to create a new version of power match. Another solution is to turn off power match, but it will still record power from pedals, and just press - to slight adjust actual target. This should give you exactly what you need if your offset is consistent and you don’t mind that actual shows different then target by a little

#3

Power match algorythm is very complicated so making it more responsive is a huge task. We do want to do this but we need to get a bit bigger first to be able to afford to do this. TR took about 7/8 years before they did V2 I think.

#4

I understand entirely and thank you for your comments.

I have done a work around for myself in line with your comments. Initially I did a dual recorded workout (TD - Neo Erg / Garmin - Assioma) with TD setting the erg power for all of my common interval FTP percentages. From the data I created a little spreadsheet showing the results and what the Neo Erg needs to be set at so that Assioma’s power is appropriate.

Then I made Erg mode versions of my upcoming workouts with the FTP percentages suitably adjusted (ie 40% is now 45%, 108% is now 106%, 125% is now 120% etc). Then in the interval comments I put the real target watts for me to monitor on my Garmin watch and make on the fly adjustments as necessary.

Worked perfectly the first time I tried it with Neo only connected to TD and Assioma’s only connected to Garmin. Disregard the TD workout & save the Garmin workout.

#5

Oh thank you for the feedback. My thinking is that level of precision is not that important (Our Coach Andrea generally thinks so as well) and if you agreed :slight_smile: you could just connect both assioma and neo to our app and press -5% and make your warmups a little harder in general. At least you could just design your workouts normally. If your process does not bother you then it’s not the end of the world as our editor is fast if you don’t have a million workout variations :slight_smile: Also I understand some people are just perfectionists or there are always “it depends” situations that precision is required. If you are doing a 2X20 then accuracy becomes more critical even if just from a mental perspective :slight_smile:

In my solution your completed line would be a bit above the blue target (target shows 150w and actual shows 160w) in our app but you could just use our app. You still might use the Garmin to record with at the same time to get it in GC but at least it would be secondary to watching our screen. I will keep this in mind. We could just create an offset matrix as well. Like “manual/auto power match” that would be much easier than power match 2.0. This discussion helps me in general so thanks.

#6

Great info Alex. Thank you.

My nature is that I get pleasure out of making my cycling stuff (bike, kit, indoor set up etc etc) work perfectly for me and so creating new workouts is all part of the fun😄. However the downside is that embarrassingly if the interval calls for 220w and my average is only 219w then somehow that feels nowhere near as satisfying as 220w🤡!!!

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#7

Your manual power match off set is interesting and got me thinking.

This is probably totally impractical or not possible but just to add to the conversation and thought evolution process,

For me it would be cool to have a manual power match option where all data displayed in the app is from the power meter and the original workout. However the app is using just the smart trainer to control erg mode. The original workout file could have an additional column for “manual erg mode off set” where you could enter the relevant off set you would like applied to each interval step. Then the icing the cake would be to have a universal off set matrix withins your account which would be applied to all workouts if the manual power match option was selected. This universal off set matrix would allow you to set the required off set for all of your commonly used FTP%'s.

#8

Interesting idea. This is basically like our automated slope mode but automated ERG adjustment mode.

Just to show visual version like below. Like you said it’s a hidden offset so you don’t really see it other than maybe a small number like power match is now.

image
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I don’t think that many people would want this but I can say it’s an interesting way to solve the problem. Seems like better power match would be more ideal but really this should be more accurate for your trainer but the problem is for wheel-on trainers that need power match the most this does not help. They have temperature variations.

If you always kept your bike in the same gear you could do this with slope mode now :slight_smile:

#9

Excellent graphic Alex :heart_eyes:!!!

Very good “balanced seeing the bigger picture” view point :+1:.

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#10

The situation for direct drive trainers that have very little or no temperature drift can be one of these three (actually four):

  • Spot-on
  • Fixed offset all over the range
  • Offset varying by power value (speed value)
  • Fixed + variable offset

This should be easy to correct for by simply applying a formula behind the screens like Corrected value = x + y * applied value. Where x is the fixed offset and y a parameter for the variable part.

You would off course need to fine-tune both values for your specific trainer compared to your power meter.

It can be of some value for wheel-on trainers but those will still have considerable drift caused by heat.
My suggestion would be to apply the formula behind the scenes and have both correction values as a setting.

#11

Another good idea. @kam my guess is fixed + offset would solve your problem and be a one time apply, set and forget. @MedTechCD is this something you would like as well?

#12

Spot on I would be fixed + offset. and yes it could be a set & forget thing.

I did try following some links once to get my x & y variables after doing a dual recorded stepped workout. But my understanding & following of how to use the data to get x & y resulted in me being so far out it was laughable :clown_face::clown_face::clown_face:.

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#13

I have negligable power difference with my trainer and pedals. Not realy need it but it seems like an easy fix for the mentioned cases. So yes, I would like it.

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