[STARTED] - Wanting more variety (cadence drills and intensity variants)

I have used Zwift and Wahoo training plans in the past and I’ve now been using TrainerDay for several months and frankly I’m bored with the workouts. I’m disappointed that there isn’t more variety and that there are no cadence targets. I hope that I’m missing something and that someone has a suggestion.


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We have 38,000 workouts and you can’t find any variety? :slight_smile:

You can also search by cadence targets

I realize you are probably referring to coach Jack. I would suggest you do a custom coach jack plan and use some of the block variants. But there is no reason you can throw in some variety from our workout database. With Coach Jack we focus more on the raw fundamentals of training rather than the entertainment value, and I realize that is not the most exciting. In reality higher intensity is more exciting, at least it does not give you time to get bored. So I guess this is the long answer to the fact that this is not as polished from an entertainment standpoint as those platforms are.


Thanks. I’ll give it a try.

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Could Coach Jack include some recovery rides that include cadence drills? I think it was Zwift that included cadence drills in some of their plans and I really enjoyed them.

@tracyross - I export my CJ workouts then import them into Rouvy so I can ride with video. Then I listen to music or podcasts just like an outdoor ride.

I am a little more than 1/2 way thru my first ever polarized build plan that I stuck to. My earlier attempts failed because I got bored or ‘felt’ fresh so I often trained harder than the workouts required. It was definitely more fun than 80% Z2 rides. But this time I am beginning to get into the rhythm and enjoying getting stronger with less stress and exhaustion.

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Hi tracyross

Hove you considered using the workout builder to construct your own workouts. That’s what I do (in conjunction with my coach) and I find that gives me all of the variety that I need. In the uk it’s still pretty cold and I’m getting towards the end of my “winter base training” and starting to construct workouts ready for my “build training” phase.

The TD workout builder is very easy to use and you can send the workouts to your training peaks a/c if you need to or just use them directly in the TD calendar. This works for me and might be worth a try.



Hi Alex, with all due respect, I disagree with your statement about “…entertainment or exciting value…” of cadence targets. Very weird way of thinking and as a coach, never heard of it before. Actually, with power meters so popular, cadence drills are very neglected. The best performing cyclists are able to maintain high power AND high rpms. It is a FUNDAMENTAL training ability to work on and in development categories, it is absolutely necessary since gearing are limited. Also, able to use higher cadence means you solicit less muscular which brings less fatigue.

No problem I like the discussion. You are absolutely right that top pro and elite cyclists tend to have a higher cadence than average. Not universally true but on it’s common in modern times.

But… It has been shown that most people can sustain the most power for the longest period of time at their natural cadence. And never been proven that riding at higher than your natural cadence will produce better results (and to some degree the opposite has been “proven”)

It’s also shown that doing cadence drills tends to have a small impact on natural cadence unless done over a very long period of time. That said, if you are at the top of your performance level trying to squeeze out that last 2-5% out of your performance than cadence drills for sure can make a difference. So my entertainment statement is a bit of an exaggeration.

But to my argument very few of us are at a level that this matters, so this is why I put cadence drills as entertainment or skills work not a critical performance enhancement.

This is a good friend of mine and ex-pro cyclist and while his message is different than what I am suggesting if you read between the lines the message is similar.

The point I take from his message is that for amateur cyclists improving their cardiovascular system which is likely best done via Zone 2 training (the general belief these days) and from that you may be in a better position to pedal a bit faster and take benefit from a little higher cadence especially in long events. So it’s not that I am against cadence work for incremental improvement, it’s just significantly more important to focus on training. So much so that it’s very optional for anyone not at their personal peak performance but if you enjoy it, have fun :slight_smile: So I don’t consider it a base level fundamental to performance but I do plan to add some cadence drills to Coach Jack in the future. For both entertainment and potenital incremental gains.

FYI - The woman that recently won the world record for 1 hour did it at something around 65 rpm.

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It’s obvious the guy that rides 2 hours a week at 100rpm is very unlikely to beat a previously similar level rider that rides 8 hours a week at 60rpm. (extreme example)

I would argue that for any individual if they do the right workouts, recovery and volume management, they will be significantly better off that if that same individual neglects one of those 3 and instead does lots of cadence work. Meaning it has a much smaller impact. I am not saying that it has no impact. Most people don’t get those top 3 correct (pro cyclists do them right as much as possible within their crazy schedules).

Again I am not arguing if it is valuable or not, more just that it is not a key fundamental to training and naturally most people are going to have some level of cadence variance in different types of training. So just randomly throwing in a bit of sustained cadence variance on your own would give most of us, “80%” of the benefit of specific cadence drills.

Create your own workouts. It’s easy and you can set target range for cadence, watts and hr. I think it’s supposed to be boring. Teaches discipline. It prepares you for riding on the road. I’ve never seen it as an end unto itself. I enjoy finding my limits with my own workouts. If they don’t produce results I have nobody to blame but myself.

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Yes you can even clone a coach jack workout and in total of about 30 seconds add cadence targets and add it back to your calendar replacing the other one. (We need to allow in-line editing from the calendar).

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I too asked CJ to add cadence to the workouts, but with no luck. From my personal point of view, this is a serious omission.

I would like to do it as I believe it’s some what of an expectation from people (like yourself) because other platforms have done it for so long. We just have such a long list of things to do and a small team so it has not bubbled up to the top of the list yet. I will try to get this done before next winter.

I was just arguing the point of fundamental from a major performance enhancer perspective. I do feel like it is a potential benefit (more for some individuals than others) so even if it is small I don’t think it has any downsides. So why not? It’s potentially free money… most of us pick up some change from the ground and stick it in our pocket…


Ok, good news. I worked with Andrea a few hours today and we are doing some major renovations to Coach Jack workouts including cadence drills. We are doing a lot more than this as well. Over all the workouts should be much more interesting, and should squeeze out some incremental gains as well.

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