Base Training / Commute

Training and Performance Fundamentals
#1

I have a training question. I am starting base training for a difficult granfondo l’etape, with about 4000 m D+) next July. I’m a pretty experienced (but very average recreational) cyclist, but first time trying structured training. I’m 62 years old.
My problem is I’m obliged to spend 7 to 10 hours a week commuting. About 60 km per day, 3 to 4 days a week. Each commute with about a 200 m climb at the end.
Too much traffic, etc for a structured workout, and the climbing part makes it practically impossible to stay in zone 2. I’ve thought of various strategies for dealing with this. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts. These pertain to winter base period.

  1. Just ride as slow as possible on the climbs, even if it entails some zone 3 and 4.
  2. Do the climbs at zone 4 and 5, avoiding zone 3.
  3. Do the climbs in too large gearing, for a sort of weight-lifting type activity.
  4. Don’t worry about numbers, just avoid leg burn, and ride such that recovery each day is no problem.
    Any thoughts ?
#2

So, I think the commuting is not the problem. In fact I know some people who only commute for several years, and who didn’t do any structured workouts. They even haven’t an idea of their ftp. One did a stress ecg at the doctors and reached 300w with no problem and even getting not close to max hr.
The really average person falls from the bike reaching 120w or something like this.
So in my opinion commuting 7 to 10 hours a week is great training. Consistency is king.

But one question: why can’t you do the climb in Z2? Is it too steep? Because with the right gears nearly all climbs could be ridden in Z2.

So here is my opinion:
Actually your body doesn’t have any idea of these 5+ zone models. The body can do aerobic and anaerobic work. That’s it. So don’t worry about the numbers or zones.
Just ride your bike, try to be most time below your aerobic threshold (so you could speak sentences, but listeners would recognise you are working out). Do once a week or twice a month (depending of your ability to recover) an high effort, probably at the end of your workout, e.g. climbing the hill as fast as you can. You can then also track your progression at that last climb.

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#3

100% full agreement with R2Tom here. You don’t need structured workouts. Maybe some variety like SFR (very low RPM) and maybe benefiting the most from a weekly long ride and as he suggested a periodic high intensity. That could just be on one of your commutes do max efforts for 3 4 times for 1 minute…

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#4

Sounds like a perfect plan, without a ‘strict’ plan :wink: . I love that.
You were already doing the right thing by consciously paying attention to not over-do it. My guess is that you want to try structured training because you can’t find a way to make your progress visible?
@R2Tom gave you the perfect solution for that. Once or twice a month, give it your best on that end climb. Plot the results for that climb in a dot chart and apply a Trend-line. Tadaa!! You got your progress plotted which will make you more confident that you’re doing things the correct way.
Best of luck for ‘l’etappe’!

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#5

Ha ha! Why can’t I do the climbs in zone 2? Because they’re steep and I suck!
So I’m talking power zone, based on a recently “measured” ftp. I think HR zone 2 wouldn’t be a problem but maybe just because the climbs aren’t very long.
What I’ve always done in the past is ride the commutes just however I feel like, then a long ride on Sunday and sometimes a long ride during the week.
I was just wanting to do better than in the past is all.
My ftp last June, riding with a power meter, was estimated at 230 by strava. I barely rode for 2 months and rode with no power meter for several months, and it now has me at 185. I did some 30 minute tests with the -5%, and came up with 205. I did a ramp test on trainerday, but I thought I was on half power, and it wound up giving me an estimate of 390, ha ha! So I need to redo it, but I think I’m somewhere around 200. Well, I can pedal really slowly and I’m over 200 watts, sometimes 300.
Anyway, thanks for the response.

#6

So, a little more explanation is maybe in order. I tend to do the commutes In a lot of zone 3 and 4. On the climbs my effort is variable, but almost every day I’ll be going really hard at some point.
I haven’t done an event like this since 2016. I had an accident, was off the bike for 2 years, and never managed to regain my old form. I’ve always just tried to randomly ride a lot, with breaks often imposing themselves, and hoped for the best.
So I was thinking a real training plan would be better. I’ve been reading Friel’s book, and saw the periodization and polarization stuff, and wanted to try. So for the last couple weeks I’ve tried staying easy-going on the commutes, and bought a home-trainer for multiple reasons.
And I was thinking the commutes could maybe be adapted to some hard effort type training later, but had this question about the low-level base training period.
But thanks to all the responders, much appreciated.

#7

Yes, we are believers in many of Joe’s suggestions and periodization can break you out of plateau’s especially with your style of riding. It can prepare your body for growth. It will make you hungry to harder efforts and feeling very refreshed in the spring. The only problem is starting out doing real Z2 base work, outdoors, takes a strict protocol of following HR and this is mentally difficult for many people in the beginning. It takes a large leap of faith in which you start feeling out of shape which is nerve racking. It will also take more time to get to work.

So you need to know if you are prepared for this. After a few months it starts getting faster and feeling better.

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#8

So for all those suggesting something like riding hard on one commute a week, would that include the base period, or is it better left for later?
And one last comment. I’m enjoying so far this riding easy business. I’ve done it a couple of weeks now and never feel that tired. Always easy to get on the bike. It may just be the power of suggestion, but it seems like a good change.
Finally, I also have a friend who almost never trains outside of this same commute (except he has no climb on the way home). Guy does really well in these kind of events. And he just declared his retirement. We’ll see what he does now.

#9

Yeah, takes me about 10 more minutes each way. And that’ll be quite a bit worse when the wind starts kicking up.

#10

I would closely compare average power to average HR for a specific segment of your ride about 5 to 10 minutes long. If would suggest you start with no hard days per week and see if you are making progress. Also ideally ride fasted to work if possible, or low carb breakfast long before the commute and start with gradual warmup. In this case you should definitely see progress. Some people 1 day per week hard would be not impact their Z2 progress and some people it would. Probably depends on how much stress you have and how well you sleep.

#11

What should I be looking for with avg HR and power? I looked up 3 examples.

  1. From recent ftp test effort, 25 min, HR 154, P 216.
  2. Mixed ftp and easy (but mostly ftp) : 1 hrs 15min, HR 153, P 204
  3. Recent commute climb, trying to ride easy : 6 min, HR 117, P 168
    My max HR is about 180. I think my HR threshold is high 150s.

Wrote all this and it occurs to me you mean I should monitor a section of road, looking at power and hr, and look for improvement. OK, great, thanks.

#12

Forgot to respond to the eating part. I’ve been on low carb for a couple of years now (but not terriblyconsistently). All my morning rides are fasted. Lately I do the return ride fasted as well, as I’d like to lose a kilo or two. For longer rides I carry a few dried figs in the pocket. Haven’t really tested it lately, but I used to be able to always go 4 hours before I’d have problems and have to eat.
But back when I was on a high-carb diet, I’d bonk sometimes on the way home - probably from having had an apple or snickers during the afternoon. Now, when I don’t eat all day, it’s never a problem.
Found your long discussions on zone 2 / aerobic threshold, and found them really interesting. I’m convinced I need to give this a serious try. And I noticed in my 2 weeks or so of trying it out, I definitely felt better.
I appreciate your site, hope to continue with it for a long time.

#13

Super cool. Sounds like you are on the right track. We are growing very fast so I don’t see us going out of business anytime soon… The bigger risk is someone big buys us, but I actually don’t want to sell. I love doing this and staying small (but bigger income :slight_smile: )

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