Yes FTP ramp tests are not a test of aerobic performance (partially) so FTP can go down. So the reality is you have something that is working, this will result in great performance gains over a long period of time. The best advice is always, when something is working keep doing it, but…
I will say instead of doing a ramp test do a 40 minute test to go as fast as you can for 40 minutes for your FPT test and that FTP value is more likely to go up with this method of training, especially over the long haul, but you mentally lose your ability to suffer if you are not doing regular hard efforts so its hard to say.
FTP drop can be mentally hard especially if you are not 100% sure you are improving. But yes doing more hard regular work can be more fun and feel better and I put fun and feeling better with great importance. So you wanted to see HRV go up and RHR go down. The plan you are on is moving in that direction better aerobic performance. But now you might realize, you prefer feeling great to maximizing aerobic performance. You can change you plan to include more intensity. The solution can be 1 day a week of HIIT for example or VO2max… This is a more polarized approach. But you might feel best with regular z3/z4… But really you can do what every you want just have fun. You might find doing z3/z4 and doing this AeT test you have been doing might not improve as much with z3/z4 but it’s an interesting test as well.
Anyway good job for doing this test period. Now you understand yourself a bit better and are ready to move to the next phase if you want.
I am not really sure yet what to do but i have a change in mind.
My base idea would be to keep that 45 mins every day with including 10 mins warm up. That means 35 minutes „efforts“.
I thought to implement 3 days per week having this 35 mins with 150 bpm HR+ training and 3 times 35 minutes with 125 bpm (average should turn out 5 beats lower each).
HR training is best for Zone 2, or outdoor when you don’t have a power meter. Doing the same thing everyday is rarely the best way to optimize results although it can be fine for a period of time say 1-2 months for example. But having fun and feeling good are top priorities so as long as you don’t over do it, you don’t have to focus on optimum results. You are looking at what Polarized training kind of proved, that that plan does not work as well as doing mostly easy and some very hard. But again you might see reasonable results with zone 3/tempo training + HIIT. For some people that is too much but for you it might be just fine, especially considering the overall low volume and if you are sleeping ok (I don’t remember). There is no black and white answer to almost any questions in training.
You are I are similar cyclists based off FTP. I’ve learned that ramp rate is crucial to what the FTP ends up being.
If the ramp per minute is 20 watts I’ve scored as high as 212. This is the Zwift test and is a terrible idea for a cyclist like me.
The TD standard ramp rate for my FTP is 10% or about 16 watts. I haven’t done one of these in a while, but I expect FPT would be around 200.
If the ramp per minute is 10 watts I’ve scored about 180 all 3 times I’ve done the test. This is a 6% ramp rate like the standard TR test.
My long-form FTP test for 30-40 minutes has historically been closer to 170. My actual hour type power is probably closer to 165, but I’m not willing to suffer enough to find out.
I’m more of a puncheur profile so all of the ramp tests overestimate for me to some degree. You could be like me or maybe you could be like a time trialist and the ramp test would underestimate for you.
I haven’t done all of the tests to have an accurate Critical Power and W Prime, but intervals estimates me as CP=161 and W’ = 21.4. If I use those values and review the sample workouts sure enough it matches:
The point of all this is that I can’t use the normal best last minute * 0.75 and get an FTP that is MLSS or hour power. If I’m doing the 6% test I need to use about 0.7 as a multiplier. If I’m doing the TD test then I need to use about 0.62.
If I wanted a ramp test to give me a good FTP with a 0.75 multiplier I would have to make the steps LONGER, probably 1.5 or 2 minutes to reduce the anaerobic contribution. I haven’t done that test so I can’t comment on it.
My small FTP Drop was just mentioned from my end to come back to @Alex since he predicted this as a result of Z2 training in the beginning.
Basically, i don’t care too much about my FTP since i do HR+ Trainings so my watts change anyways on a daily basis based on my daily form.
What i recognized is, that i felt better with higher intensities. With felt better i mean more energetic, more happy, higher recoveries etc.
That’s what’s more important for me but of course i also don’t want to damage my body. Back then, with higher intensities i did less training days.
@Alex my sleep remains unchanged no matter if no intensity, Z2 Training or high intensity. I sleep between 6-7 h per night with 1,5-2h awake time with is most probably connected to some genetic defect. However, Psychotherapy and the Sleep Lab guys cannot fix it or have any idea about it. That wake time makes me crazy to be honest and I wish I could influence it with a specific training approach but I think that remain a dream.
Maybe you would like a tempo or sweet spot block? I don’t know how long your workouts are but you could start with 3x8 at 85% or 90% of FTP with 2 or 3 minutes rest and see if you like it. These should still be quite gentle workouts, but would have some additional intensity.
Ok so I would mix it up. One day z2, one day tempo/sweet spot one day HIIT and see how you feel. Really Coach Jack Italian is a good one and if it starts off to easy for you then boost the starting intensity.
You could create a custom plan in coach jack like this. And on the other day should be zone 2 or recovery depending on what it is before
A workout type that I will offer up for your consideration: SPRINTS. Useful to include because they can help increase maximal neuromuscular power.
I knocked this one up to give you an idea of what I mean - it is quite a tough one. 7 x 20s would be easier and you could cap the sprints at a lower %FTP, or give them an open target and just go full gas each time.
And these caught my eye when browsing the workout catalogue
Unfortunately I am in a low performance period right now. Beginning of August I started taking SSRI Meds to tackle my sleep issues. My total sleep time has increased, which is nice. However, the quality has dipped and this is still the case.
I think I am still in an adaption period while my stress levels in total are quite high from my Job. My Training seems to add up extra stress which seems too much for my system right now.
Seems also I wanted too much and really need to go lower with intensities.
It’s not that I did nothing the last weeks but less training days. However, I trained in HR Zone 2 (140 bpm in AVG) for 45 mins with 120 Watts avg. This seems too much already. Therefore, I reduce my target HR to fit more into PZ2. My “higher intensity” days will now target HR Zone 1 - 125 bpm. The easy days target 115 bpm.
Let’s see how and when I come back to better recoveries again.
Additionally I incorporate new type of breath work. So far I did WHM but reviewing a couple of month I seems not to benefit too much. I will change to daily 5 minute sessions of “Box breathing” after one month I should see some results.
Sorry about the sleep issues. I would not worry about low performance at all. People should go through cycles of low and high it’s just nicer/better when you are the one in control of that.
Not sure how you are tracking sleep quality but don’t rely heavily on wearables to make that determination. They are very unreliable in most cases. Now if you have something to cross reference that with like how you feel then it may provide an idea of what is going on. My feeling is more sleep is the most important and clear aspect and usually means more time in each zone.
Anyway sounds like you are thinking right regarding stress, training stress is REAL. Periods of high life stress should be accompanied by lower intensity training for optimum health.
Anyway it seems like you are learning your body and figuring things out so we will hope you can minimize the stress get good sleep and see a rebound on your perspective of your fitness.
I don’t really have anything to add to what Alex said, but wanted to reply to offer best wishes that your job calms down and you’re able to sleep better.
It always sucks when your plans are not working out the way you wanted.
In your case, I would let go of anything that can bring more stress. Focus on fun and relaxation. A breathing method that doesn’t relax you is not helping.
It seems like this is one of the few occasions I would even say stop collecting data. Just grab your bike and ride outside without your bike computer. Enjoy nature and relax. Once you do this, there will be a point where that internal fire starts burning again. That’s your starting point.
Your private life is none of my business, but you describe it as the source of your stress. If that is costing you sleep, my personal advice would be to do something about that. Sleep is one of the most important things. It goes right up there with oxygen and water.
Take care of yourself and find that fire and passion. So much more important than watts.
My sleep problem persist and no one knows why and no matter what i do.
After the Docs from the Sleep Lab of an university hospital gave up and just said its non organic sleep insomnia i thought theres not much left.
But therapy and meds also did not change my problem.
Nor exercising a lot, from time to time or not at all.
Nothing does make any change. I dont know what else i could do about it but training related i like to exercise and i just do what i like.
I am reading what AI says about it. It says one of the initial causes can be stress, which is my area of interest and a bit of knowlege. According to AI it says once induced it may not be stress that perpetuates it. It also sounds like many other causes but it’s not a symptom of something it just is that thing…
I assume you will continue to try to resolve it? If there is any stress aspect to it just remember training causes stress but at lower intensity it also reduces stress while also causing it. No idea how that really works internally. So I would be careful with hard training and trying to resolve this, use hard training sparingly and carefully.
Move to a warm seaside?
Anyway sorry about your issue. Not sure we can be of any help that the medical community can’t be, or digging in deep with AI on exploring ideas (don’t get caught in actually believing what it tells you just to find smart, safe ideas on what you could try).
Thanks following up. I don’t expect any solution here of course.
I still take meds but my next appointment is in January where we decide to get rid of them or try something else.
Thats all what’s ongoing so i don’t try to resolve anything anymore. It is what it is.
This are my last 6 month. As you can see there is a recent drop linked to a flu. I don’t exercise when i am sick.
So i barely hit HR zone 3.
For HR Zone 4-5 (starting 161 bpm) i am even less. Less than 4 minutes per week in average.
I don’t exercise when I am sick either, combination of trying to recover faster and reduced motivation. Try to just keep doing some movement even if that means walks… I just has a 3 week covid like thing, so just getting back into it.
So I put anyones training that is 1) consistent, 2) not highly risky based on other factors as incredible (i.e. healthy). So I REALLY like your training for you.
I think I am a bit crazier than you meaning I would keep experimenting for the rest of my life to try to solve a sleep problem. Not saying I would be good at consistency and resolving it but I never give up. I am 60 and re-learning how to type with totally different key position (holding A is my shift key) enter is by my thumb… so I would say I continue to try to always optimize regardless if it is a smart use of time…
Anyway, each of us is unique and have to find our own way. For someone like me it’s easy to try to prescribe ideas for you to try but obviously medical issues are complicated and if you had cancer I surely would not be offering any advice and I am probably similarly qualified in both cases. Sleep seems so solvable but obviously in your case it’s not so easy. I guess for something like this I would try all kinds of crazy ideas as compared to just relying on doctors.
