Can you post a link or something to explain the primary and secondary work? Also, are you able to post a screen shot of a workout simplified for outdoor use? Many thanks, Dan.
Towards the bottom of this page I explain.
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I will post something showing the idea of simplified seconary tomorrow around this time but it is becoming clear we need to improve our new simplification algorithm which we will do soon.
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Here you can see the difference, the problem is we did super simplification, we need to improve the logic to make it more interesting and give some more short rests 
either that or for secondary work we could just say Zone 3 target or a wide range meaning you can ride how you want in the secondary but try to generally hit a target of say upper Zone 2 for example.
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Thanks Alex. I can only speak from a personal perspective but I don’t think it needs to be that ‘interesting’ for outside use. The being outside part offers plenty of interest and given that you still need to follow the power numbers manually (not having the benefit of ERG) it shouldn’t be too complex.
Yes, you are thinking like I have been, that is why we created this simplified mode but I guess part of the problem is not so much interesting but people just feel it is long sustained, so when I say interesting I just mean a little more varied. I always thought this secondary work with just be kind of a placeholder but some people want something more perscriptive. But thanks for your perspective. I think other platforms and coaches tended to focus on perfecting the whole working, we are follow a pro-rider approach that you nail the main work perfectly and secondary work is secondary
There’s a definite balance to be struck.
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Hi Alex!
When is Coch Jack going to review the workouts and have them slow down or speed up depending on our physical condition and change one workout or another?
Another question I wanted to ask you was the following, in March I’ll have several mountain bike and road races and in Jack’s Coch you can only put one event at a time, can’t you put several?
Have you already managed to solve the training problem sent from trainer day to Garmin?
Strong hug
J. Gomes
Hi Jose, sorry I did not respond to Garmin issue. I could not seem to find the thread with that. My developer for this had a long weekend so it is taking longer than expected. So you are talking about 4 things.
- Garmin Total Time Problem (Should be today or tomorrow)
- Garmin Secondary work improvements (Should be within 30 days)
- Coach Jack Dynamic (Target is before next winter season)
- Multiple Events - I will add second topic for this one
Total time problem should be fixed. I did not test it yet but my developer says it is. Don’t worry I will respond about #4 soon.
Thanks Alex.
I’ll tell you one thing. I’ve been training as you know for 3 months and I feel an improvement every time I go out.
Thank you so much for your help on Coach Jack.
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That is so cool Jose!!! Thank you so much.
I added the multiple events here.
XERT recently announced a training file importer that would allow external workouts to be converted to their „Smart workouts“. At least for me that helps a lot with the outdoor experience: I really struggle with compliance with a prescribed training outdoors. Although I don‘t really like running the Garmin with a CIQ app, the smart XERT algorithm will prolong intervals if I do not hit them exactly, and that happens way too often. For me (as a paying XERT and TD subscriber) this is really a gamechanger for the outdoor experience: Now I can have the structured Coach Jack plans (I don‘t like the rudimentary workout planner XERT implements), the awesome TD app (that no competitor beats in simplicity to use) for indoors and XERT for structured training outdoors.
I saw this announcement and was thinking it’s not super interesting at least to me but I did not realize this aspect of their smart workouts and I realize now that you point this out that is interesting Even though I don’t want to go full Xert route when we outdoorify our app maybe we can think about making workouts a bit smart like this to extend them or reduce them based on execution. I like that idea. I am not in love with phone on the bike but I don’t want to build an CIQ app…
Actually I do hate running a CIQ app instead of the native software from Garmin. But it‘s still better than a phone on my bar. The smart bit of the CIQ is pretty simple: they stretch the time of the interval until the prescribed intensity (TSS) of this part of the workout is reached. Simple but very effective.
But please spare the effort for a CiQ app or even enabling outdoor use of your app (just my 2 ct).
Yes, you might be right that us sticking to indoors might be the best plan. Part of this outdoor idea is that one user got our app running on a Karoo device so that gives both a nice Karoo experience or others that want to use a phone on their bike. I never liked the Garmin or Wahoo experience of following intervals outdoors but I would say I never really got good at it either. Generally I just want people to have a good outdoor experience and if there is some like it sounds like you have something that works for you, then great. I know Xert is too much for many people. I am very technical but too lazy to learn all Xert has to offer.
I started a new thread here because this one is long and this new one is more about specific improvements as well as fixing the mistakes in the current implementation.
Any chance some of this functionality will come to Wahoo devices?
I really have enjoyed TD and i am currently in a Coach Jack training plan. I have tried other systems and while i may improve i seem to beat myself up, most likely over training. So I would do great work with commitment then burn out and lose most of my gains. I am sure all was not lost, I know it is just not optimal. Using TD has not burned me out and I have appreciated the gradual approach. When I started with TD i just used my old FTP, mostly just seeing how I liked the system ( I do need to be mindful to test more consistently, every 6 - 8 weeks maybe on a rest week). Recently I just tried the TD Ramp Test (Automatic) and bumped my FTP 12% (to 219), so there may be some pain during the initial perceived effort but I am feeling confident in consistent progress and don’t expect TD to overcook me more than I can handle.
I have been pushing my workouts to TP then syncing with my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt. The workouts do not seem to be structured any different than if I was on the trainer. I have flowed with this accepting that conditions might require me to push harder or easier but glancing at my head unit always brings me back to generally how hard I should be working. I have seen in other systems where you can mark something as outdoor and it levels off the intervals to reduce variation.
All said and done if I am riding, that is all that really matters, and a good day outside with some acknowledgment of power targets with practice managing my drivetrain and cadence seems like a solid exercise to me. I do wonder though if my efforts could be further maximized with an adjustment to push workouts in an “outdoor” mode giving me more opportunity to hit and keep a target that is optimal for that workout.