Hei all you endurance trainers.
Without getting too much into product names and what you recommend for endurance events I’d love to hear what you ACTUALLY FEEL when you take onboard an energy drink or bar.
Over the years I’ve tried many alternatives from home made to purchased products. My latest testing is a product supposedly giving 90g of carbs (ratio2:1 maltodextrin-to-fructose) to 50dl water, and if I am honest, I don’t actually think I feel anything from them.
So my discussion question is. Being honest, do you actually feel anything or do you just believe you can perform longer when using them? Would plain water and a bread and jam sandwich be just as good?
While this sounds like a pretty straight forward question, I’m on a journey myself at the moment that is related to this question and it’s not “that straightforward”. Since about a month I started to eat differently and avoid carbs and sugar. Not religious like a keto diet, but pragmatic. The aim is to loose weight ahead of the summer with some big climbing rides planned. Works very well. But then add cycling and training and it becomes a bit more challenging. And not very scientific, this is what I feel.
Even if I stick to zone2 training, and in theory, should not need carbs, the first couple of weeks, this didn’t work. I felt like I needed some carbs. I guess my body was adapting to using fat as an energy source. and I guess this adaptation didn’t just go “overnight”. Now I’m about 4 weeks in. When I do a zone2 ride, my body is fine. It’s not asking for something extra any more. But : when I do another type of effort, whole different story. Which makes sense of course. So when I plan at HIIT training, or when I do an outdoor hilly ride where I don’t stick to zone 2, I add some gels and bars. Your question is : do you feel the difference. The answer is : you bet. If you endurance effort however stays in zone2, it’s perfectly possible you don’t feel the need for any of this.
This is just how I feel it 
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Interesting Sport-It. Due to the rolling and hilly terrain I’ll be in my zone 2, 3, 4 and 5 at times.
To be honest I don’t know whether it is the marketing hype but I suppose I have expected to feel some sort of “buzz” after drinking or eating energy products, which I never have.
I have a normal varied diet and also have been doing Zone2 training this winter which totally destroyed my form, whether because I was doing it wrong or not I don’t know, but it just didn’t seem to work for me.
I get a buzz . For me all processed carbs give me a buzz. I believed the marketing around a product called Glycofuse, being delayed release and less of the glucose/insulin negatives processed carbs. It might not be real. I think I tested them with a glucose monitor and did not see the spikes but I am not 100% sure on that.
I like Glycofuse but more because of the taste/feeling similar to drinking powered lemonade with out the extreme sugar rush. I get motivation from most products like this but I have used them more for weight lifting motivation then endurance performance.
I have also tested zone 2 running fasted and after a year of doing this I felt fine up to about 2 and 1/2 hours of running before needing some nuts. I do think you can become a good fat burner but so far I have never felt the ability to do longer hard efforts on low/zero carbs.
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I live in the region of the “Ronde van Vlaanderen” (Tour of Flanders), so hilly is the least you could say It took me a long time before I was able to do a “zone2 ride” outside. Some of the climbs are just too steep, I can’t stay in zone2. But up to a 5-6% gradient, I’m finally there. BUT : it’s a mental thing. The temptation to “just push it to the top” is always there. Not doing it anymore when I don’t want to. Shift back to the small ring in the front, if needed to the big one in the back. The first couple of time, I felt like everybody was just staring at me But for me it’s working. It’s amazing how zone2, combined with some HIIT training is doing miracles. I now do zone2 always, except for 2 times a week when either to an indoor hard session, or I just go out and push as hard as I can on every climb
I’m not doing “fasted” rides, as in, I eat normal, without the carbs and sugar. No rides before breakfast. and I always have a couple of gels with me. Bonking is not nice, I want to be safe
Sounds like an excellent plan, congrats on the Z2 hills. I am big Z2 fan myself.
This made my day 
. Are you racing a cargo bike with a 50l beer keg?
No, just thinking aloud.
I did this event last year and wasn’t impressed with myself. Amongst other things my drink and food, it was far too sweet after a few hours. So just thinking ahead like any sensible person would 
Well, even under the harshest tropic conditions in full gear that’ll be enough water for approximately 5 days, so well done. I do like endurance events, but for me a 70.3 is currently enough
50dl is HALF A LITRE!
5 dl is half a liter. 500 dl is 50 liter
Good thing I am an American and we don’t have to learn that confusing metric system. We can stick to our simple 12 inches to a foot, and 5280 feet to a mile none of this crazy 10 to 1 mumbo jumbo…
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Presume you realise it was a glitch
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Haha, i saw one video once where a “proud American” showed a shitload of different units, nobody ever heard of and showed an example where he converted a unit through the full circle. The funny thing though was that he came short by just a bit (with the number not matching any of the units though)
So there might be a reason why “standards” are called just that 
[sarcasm mode off]
Your statement on zone2 got me thinking. Why do you say ‘zone 2 training destroyed your form’ ? Is it because you feel and experience your overall condition has declined (or is gone). Or is it because Strava or Garmin tell you it’s gone ?
Let me explain why I’m wondering. After a lot of reading I decided to go for Zone2 training last September. I have spend first a couple of months doing mainly indoor Zone2 training. When the weather allowed it, I went outside for a ride. At that time, I was no able yet do really do a Zone2 ride outside. Take Strava as an example:
So funny and so wrong. When you do Zone2 training, especially indoors, Strava (and Garmin is the same) tell you that you are detraining big time. No idea why. Except probably for Garmin it’s marketing related, they want you to go outside :-). At first it’s frustrating to see. But I started seeing the joke of it. If I want to, I can manipulate their graphs by doing a specific workout. A workout that doesn’t make sense in my training plan. I’m not interested in that to be honest. I have my own KPIs, I have my own feeling on the bike and I have my own climbs outside when I want to have some fun and smash some personal records. So I’m wondering why you say it destroyed your form. Can be true, but might no be your form but some marketing inspired website.
Funny side note : Garmin has this indicator : Performance Condition that shows up after about 20min of riding. Never bothered to find out how to switch it off. But while Garmin is telling me all week long I’m detraining, when I go out in the weekend for an outdoor ride, my performance condition is at least +4. So funny, they contradict their own metrics :-).
Side note 2 : Zone2 training got me from September to December a solid baseline. Then I started adding some harder workouts about 2 times a week. That’s when it really started to pay off. But that’s another story.
Nice to see a sensible discussion Sport_IT.
I don’t use Garmin or Strava to measure my performance although I let the sessions upload to them. I use Intervals.Icu
What I found mainly was that my FTP dropped by over 10 points during the 6 months I was actively doing the 80/20 principal. However, my power to HR did increase somewhat. I should also mention I live in Norway so I am forced to use a wheel off turbo trainer. I am also 75 yo. I also had a s**t winter with several things upsetting the training. Having said all that, I just felt (Perceived RPE) I was going backwards. This is born out by the fact that I’m now in Spain and a long way behind where I usually am.
My feeling is that low intensity training perhaps isn’t for everyone and that some need other types of training. Could be physiological but thats my feeling. Anyway, I’m now just using a few weeks in Spain getting used to being back on the bike with friends then back to Norway and focus a little more on endurance riding in hilly Norway.
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So from my experience, reading and talking to coaches your case is the most typical. If you do all low intensity when you come back to moderate to hard intensity it feels very hard and you feel off. This should change quickly. So you should have this new higher aerobic base (based on hr/power) but you still can feel off. Just give it a month and hopefully and usually you will feel amazing and stronger than ever.
I mention this often but they first year, I coached a guy (Roger) he won his US state championship for his age group at the age of 75 he did all zone 2 in the winter indoors and then switched and slowly increased intensity outdoors. Now he is 78 and still trains the same way and still feel very fast by late spring.
Now all that said. Joe Friel says 50+ riders should include some intensity all year round. That could be 5-10 minutes a week for example. If you do 100% low intensity (according to Joe) you will start to loose your ability to do this hard work.
Both Andrea and I both feel Joe offers good advice in most cases. Like most everyone some times he contradicts himself but overall it seems solid.
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Thanks for this input Alex. I did do some intensity work during my winter. I’m not giving up entirely on low intensity work. Once back in Norway and on the road there I’ll ride alone and concentrate more on that and trialing fuelling which is also a focus at present.
I think it is safer to do some intensity and follow Joe’s suggestion and he says that intensity should be very high but can be short. In Rogers case he is genetically a TT style rider, meaning his power duration curve ends right after FTP so while 100% Z2 works well for him in the winter it might not for others.
Exactly. I don’t know when any one evented some non-standard like 1,000meters to km… This is just crazy… who ever invented this should have stuck with the “standards.”