Hi i am not exactly new to training but TD is the first time I have been keeping a consistent schedule.
Whenever I do a sweet spot workout I can usually manage to to finish the interval section but by the time I am done I dont have enough in the tank to finish the endurance section. I am on the serious italian plan.
Is it ok to to lower the intensity and try to finish it out or am I over reaching and should consider changing my plan? or something else entirely I am missing,
If you can’t do the endurance part after SweetSpot, your FTP is most likely overestimated.
Sweetspot should feel hard but shouldn’t leave you drained to the point that you can’t do endurance anymore. It might seem too much the first 5-10 min but you should quickly recover enough to do the endurance part in pretty comfortable way. You may want to try a bit more recovery after your last SS interval before starting the endurance work but honestly, reducing FTP by 5-10W is much more likely to bring you long term results. It will also avoid too much fatigue build-up which could be the underlying reason of your problem.
One more thing to follow up on: do you replenish energy during those SweetSpot intervals? They take a lot of carbs out and that might equally be the reason that you feel to weak for the endurance part.
yes for the 90+ min sessions i have 2 bottles with formula 369 in it. My 20 min test gave me the 207 ftp.
I was considering lowering my ftp but I wonder if it will make my 45-60 min endurance days a bit too easy.
I´m not going to say that this is impossible, but it is very, very unlikely 
Hi Fallingdown 420,
I would say two bottles is not enough. Since you are training indoors, you are probably sweating more. 750ml per hour should be fine. If you are making an isotonic drink, you only have 30 grams of carbs per hour. That is not a lot, although you should be able to finish your workout if your glycogen stores are full.
So, the next question is: are your glycogen stores full?
In other words: are you eating enough?
The simple checklist for your problem is:
If your FTP is right, go to step 2:
2) do the training while eating 70-90gr of carbs per hour.
If that doesn’t solve the problem, go to step 3:
3) Download an app to track your energy intake and fix it if necessary.
The last step is always a good step to do. It’s a pain to do, but if you do this for a week (don’t forget to include workdays and a weekend) you have a treasure of information.
Have fun, Coach Robert
How hard is the workout? Can you share the interval details?
Dave
One thing I always recommend is pressing the down arrow to reduce intensity until it feels like what you want the workout to feel like but yes as others have suggested if this is too hard your FTP is likely still too high. This is a pretty hard workout for many people but for many racers that are used to hard sustained it can be no problem.
I for example, if I do a ramp test because I tend to have a poor aerobic capacity but stronger anaerobic or sprinting ability a ramp test will over estimate by 20% or possibly even more. I still believe ramp tests are better but more for a measure of progress and less for exact training intensity especially in cases like mine and possibly yours. FTP for training intensities can be a bit of trial and error and cross reference, but if you were doing a ramp test for FTP, doing a classic 20-minute test might help you better understand and set your training estimate FTP or just lower it to 200 and see how it goes. It should feel hard but doable and that you could do more without killing yourself. I mean you did it but realize they are going to keep getting harder so it’s better to back off so it’s more comfortable.
I hate to be an echo chamber here, but I’d agree with the others, your FTP is set way too high if you are unable to complete this workout.
Don’t be discouraged from this, but I’m going to give you a bit of a reality check. From your screenshot, it looks like your working sets are 4x4 min. So 16 minutes total at SS intensity. Your FTP should theoretically be the max amount of watts you can hold for 45-60 min. So then it only makes sense to say you should be able to hold your SS for longer. Now I’m not saying you should do this for training, but it gives you a good idea that 16 minutes at that power should be relatively easy as long as your FTP is set right.
I know that TrainerDay plans subscribe to the idea that your training shouldn’t be too hard, but most modern coaching philosophies and plans would prescribe SS and threshold workouts that are much more difficult. For example, here is advice from Empirical Coaching for SS and Threshold workouts:
Assuming you’ve accurately assessed FTP, and depending on how new you are to training, start somewhere between 3x15 to 3x20 and from there add 5min per interval/10min per session until you’re doing 2hrs of interval time.
If you’re time limited you can do it via FTP intervals instead, start at 3x10 if you’re new, 2x20 if you’re not and progress by 2-3min per interval/5-8min per session until you’re doing an hour per workout.
I don’t doubt the Empirical Cycling guidelines are extremely effective, but for many people they aren’t very fun.
I think those types of intervals are more for the racers, not all of us fall into that category. I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I’m training to ride better on the weekend and the training itself has to be at least a little fun.
Dave
I agree with you 100%. I hope I didn’t come off seeming like you have to train like that or you are doing it wrong. All I was trying to point out was that if OP is failing SS workouts doing 16 minutes in the zone, especially split into 4 intervals, the FTP must be set too high because it really should not be that difficult.
No, not at all. I think you’re right.
Dave
Yes, we more suggest it for three reasons,
Also most pros won’t do 2X20, they save that level of suffering for races. Andrea says getting a pro to do an FTP test is extremely difficult. They want to save the digging deep for something rewarding (i.e. racing).
But obviously in your case you have learned to balance it correctly for yourself and I also agree with everything you said here.
Thank you all for the input -
I track my intake on cronometer since I am trying to lose lbs and carb intake is adequate. I am also a bigger rider (225lb) so I assume that also plays a role in my difficulties.
I based my ftp off my 20 min test but I will try and lower the FTP 10 points to see how and up my carb intake during training.
You had an IF of .68 which is clear Z2 and you were supposed to hold it at least couple of hours without an issue. You may have overestimated FTP or too negative TSB, maybe unusual PDC which goes down too fast as duration increases, thats my guesses.
But it needs to be looked carefully and in context, otherwise it’s hard to give any reasonable advice.
20 min FTP is rock solid, you really cannot overestimate using this method. Ramp test may lead to this if you are very anaerobic but not 20 min test.
