New big feature coming today - called "TODAY"

To some degree our new feature “TODAY” is similar to TrainerRoad’s Train Now feature but likely not as smart as theirs (yet). They use the term AI, that is often a misleading term but ours is just using some rules trying to pick a workout similar to what you do based on you selecting the time. As you ride more workouts in our app it tries to pick more similar workouts. This is first iteration so we will continue to improve this.

I am posting now but it will be available in a few hours :slight_smile: This is WEB ONLY for now but it is coming to the app in the next week or two.

We have been working on dynamic training for a long time and yet to launch the full vision of what we want to do. This is a baby step in that direction.

Looks interesting. Where will it show in the web app as i can’t spot it yet?

Hi Alex! looks like a feature I would be using a lot!
Don’t know how advanced this feature currently is, but it would be nice if this would for instance look into how much stress your week currently already has had by checking the past activities in the calendar. And based upon that do some recommendations to achieve optimal stress levels :slight_smile: More advanced would be if it also take int could account for potential events you have planned in the calendar through the training plans.

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Super cool. I see there is a bug now regarding in what the chart looks like. We are fixing that.

This feature is not very advanced now but we just wanted to get V1 out there and will continue to enhance it. First next steps will be increasing the accuracy of the suggested workouts chosen based on past activities (right now it is primarily looking at intensity factor, desired length and popularity) but as you say looking at this weeks calendar/plan and giving alternatives might be a simple additional win. We also need to look at recent Strava history not just what you do in our app.

Yes, I was thinking just like you. Using PMC based on TSB to decide if someone should have more intense or less intense today. And if TSB is too deep, it could say “Consider a day off :)” Probably should get feedback after they do Today’s based workouts and adjust based on feedback as well.

So we have been trying to do “Dynamic Jack” for years now and struggle to implement what we feel is an optimal solution although we have a working prototype now that is a starting point.

But you are right, as an alternative or as part of this it could be a gradual entry way into Dynamic Jack, or as you say just look at their plan even if it is not Coach Jack based and give alternative choices ultimately leading them towards their target date.

The key seems to be some how understanding user preference and knowledge, the periodization blocks that lead to that next event and slowly increasing intensity and specificity to the event.

Some users want it “their way” and some users want “just give me something reasonable.”

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I think it indeed can be combined somehow with Coach Jack, as indeed it is nice to have a plan for the upcoming weeks and to have the different training blocks.

Only drawback is that due to work or other life events, often the preplanned workouts do not fit in the schedule anymore. For instance having more/less time than initially planned, or being unavailable/available on different days than initially planned when setting up the plan.

It would maybe be an idea to have the ability to at the start of the week, confirm/adjust your available timings for the week. Based on this input coach jacks plan could be tweaked to fit your upcoming week while still maintaining the overall training plan.

Another idea would maybe be to incorporate outdoor rides or group rides in this short term week planning.
Potentially, when knowing up front you have a group ride, it would be nice to be able to add this to the plan with an estimated effort required (scale 1-10) and maybe even importance (1-10). And then afterwards reading HR/Power data from Strava or whatever source, to recalculate TSB and maybe even adjust the upcoming trainings for the week.

Yes, this is for sure the direction of dynamic jack. As I mentioned this is two different paths ultimately heading towards the same goal of giving you a good workout for today. TODAY is the more simple version that will continue to get smarter and smarter. So we have these two paths that might some how eventually be merged, which is dynamic training.

Just to give some background. Coach Jack dynamic will still be a while. We are launching a prototype/beta project soon that is called DCS (Dynamic Coaching System). It is a dynamic version of jack but also includes a human coach (Coach Robert).

Because Robert is involved and monitoring the students and providing help it puts less reliance on having all cases covered for Coach Jack dynamic. Robert is super great and has the same basic philosophies as we do. So DCS is more like his product when it launches, that we provide the technology for but it is very connected to TrainerDay and Coach Jack as well.

As DCS improves and stabilizes and we feel it is ready then we can launch dynamic Coach Jack without Robert. It’s likely obvious but since it includes a human coach it’s in between product pricing and coach pricing.

Robert has a semi-scalable coaching business now but DCS allows him to take his business to the next level of scalability as in general as the dynamic part gets perfected, he should not need to be involved with daily/weekly workout and calendar adjustments and just focus on communication, guidance and big picture as well as motivating his DCS students.

So I guess in the depths of this thread I am talking about something coming up :slight_smile: I will announce it for beta users in the next couple months.

Hi I created the plan with Jack that I will start in November for 12 weeks. Will there be changes in the meantime?

Should I redo the plan with Jack because of the new changes to come?

I don’t know exactly when any changes will launch, when they do it will just be more plan options (new kinds of plans) and some extension to current features so if there is something you want you can update your plan at that time. The way our plans work is it is pretty easy in the middle to upgrade the plan.

These won’t be any major improvements to the plans that will drastically improve the results you would get, just a little extra icing on the cake for the most part. It won’t be like wow these plans are way better or way more effective.

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It seems that TODAY’s rides are not syncing with either intervals or garmin for me.

Im guessing we still need to add them manually since it’s a new feature?

Great work and great feature! I recently started cycling and trainerday was a great alternative to all the other training apps! Keep up the good work!

They should maybe there is a new bug. Let me test it.

Yes, Intervals and Garmin are broken. TP works. We will get this fixed ASAP.

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This is fixed. Thanks so much for letting us know.

@Alex Are the “TODAY” workouts intended to be somewhat progressive? Meaning, if I select one today, will the “TODAY” workouts surfaced in a few days be harder? What is the system using to surface workouts that are similar to what the rider does (stress, intensity, etc.)?

Nice question :slight_smile: Yes that is how it works. It’s fairly basic now but we will keep working on it. We look at your hardest 2 workouts of the 14 days and suggest something slightly harder (greater IF). It picks something random within time and IF range constraints. If you keep pressing refresh it gets harder and harder limit on randomization (not necessarily harder workout because there is some randomization) and after 6 refreshes will reset back . We put some caps on it to try not to kill people :slight_smile:

It still needs some improvements as it goes a bit too extreme but it’s more designed right now for someone to find something they like for how they feel today.

The left 2 workouts in the TODAY feature are usually a bit harder than Coach Jack would recommend. This is more in line with the TrainerRoad approach. It’s for sure not AI, although personally I think a large set of rules could be just as good or better than AI in most cases (or in reality might be the same thing :)). This is simple for now. The idea of IF progressions is not a perfect concept but it’s not too bad until you get to really hard stuff. Then progressive intervals like Coach Jack are much better from our perspective. But some people like harder and more “fun” this helps satisfy that need.

We don’t use stress as stress will be connected to duration but if you did the same duration every workout stress should increase over time as well while IF increases. Now if you do 90 minutes this week and 45 next week your TSS will drop and we will not increase IF.

With randomization it is not guaranteed that one workout is greater than the last but really one workout with IF=.8 could be super hard and another of .8 might be fine depending on the specifics.

Anyway I would love feed back and suggestions for improvement :slight_smile: for sure we have to get it to better align with what people like.



What do you think of Today using TrainerDay “approved” workouts versus the general uploads from the user base?

It is good to have the large variety, but I’m not sure of the credentials of those designing the workouts.


I answered this some where else in great depth but there is nothing special to creating a workout. One workout is good for someone and not the best for someone else, it does not matter who uploaded it (best coach in the world or a beginner with an idea). If it is popular chances are it’s reasonable for some guys.

Coaches and platforms have tried to make their workouts seems special but this is not true. Plans can be more special but a specific workout can not.

It’s all about providing a reasonable workout for the right person at the right time. This will have a benefit. The wrong workout is more about way too intense or way too easy. You can see this clearly in TrainerRoad forums talking about workouts. One person thinks something is fine the other thinks it is way too hard. They were all created by a coach.

Most important for most users is staying consistent and not digging themselves in too deep of hole. The perfect workout vs an ok workout probably changes the effectiveness of the workout by less than 5% and affects your overall performance by .001%. The major big picture of volume and consistency make a big difference (like 90% of your results).

Doing mostly easy and some hard can produce good results for the majority of people. All moderately hard workouts is more risky but might work for some, especially in the short term. Even though I recommend against all moderately hard, in reality if you don’t burn out or get hurt and it it keeps you consistent then all moderately hard can be reasonable.

If you want a well tailored plan that takes this into account then Coach Jack is better. Our plan is to better integrate Coach Jack logic into Today but that will still be a while. I believe our Today is closer to TrainerRoad than to Coach Jack but I am not claiming it is as smart as TrainNow. Today recommended workouts should be reviewed and given some thought. “Looks fun and my level, lets try it.” Looks too hard… We are changing the logic everyday to improve it. New version is there today and new one coming tomorrow. Tomorrow’s version should be much better than the one that is there now.

One problem with TODAY, and my guess is TrainNow in TrainerRoad is that it does not incorporate quality periodization. Training consistently year in and year out without periodization probably has a negative hit of reaching 10-20% more than with quality periodization (guess, no science to back this up). Again consistency and volume matter even more than periodization if someone is inconsistent (years of training 48+ weeks a year a few times a week). So if you are 100% consistent, you could likely do better with a plan. You could use TODAY and easily incorporate periodization. Part of the year do mostly easy, and keep picking more and more of the hard workouts as you get towards peak season. Dr Seiler thinks that all year long of 80/20 with no periodization works ok as well. It might but we don’t have any proof of that. We just have a study to show it is effective for 9 weeks. Even all year round I think it is reasonable.

Today tries to always recommend a workout you should be able to do but that is not guaranteed. It can be on the harder side. Coach Jack’s recommendation everyone should be able to complete because it is a plan and starts easy.

Hope this helps.


We are improving this. Next week hopefully it will be inside the app.

Desktop is about using it on other systems

Mobile let’s you do ride now. Right now it does not work on iPad but we are fixing this.

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Thanks, I appreciate the detailed reply.


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Does this take into account workouts that you have paired from outside workouts on your calender, or is it just workouts that you use your mobile app to control the trainer, a lot of my workouts get done in Zwift or outside, and this seems like a great tool

Right now it is just our app workouts but we want to extend it to work on anything coming from strava. Ideally before this winter. Yes I think this can be fun :slight_smile: We are also improving the app, so zwift users can just open the app and play with TODAY, and click “send to TP/Zwift…” So you don’t need to use the website. The Ultimate convenience makes it even cooler.