I’ve just started the italian plan and was dissapointed to find out that my wattbike cant push the required power at 35-45 RPM 
I could just about hit the target power at 50 RPM without dropouts… is it worth me continuing the plan at 50 RPM or will i be missing the benefits of the workouts?
Thanks in advance!
Sounds like you are too strong 
The WattBike Atom says 2500w (I assume about 120rpm). What is your FTP?
What happens when you do 50 rpm at 82% of FTP in slope mode? Just manually switch to slope mode and keep pressing + until your reach 82% at 50rpm. Just try this as a test to better understand. Maybe slope mode provides more resistance than ERG mode for example.
I think I read 2500w at 130rpm somewhere (but I might be wrong).
FTP is 330, I think the intervals in SFR #1 were 248w.
I tried messing with resistance / slope but didnt have much luck - after the workout I opened the wattbike app and tried to find the maximum power at 35-45 RPM but it was having the same issue. It almost feels like its dropping the power on purpose to help you pedal, weird. Perhaps is a firmware / functionality related issue as opposed to a hardware limitation.
Is it worth me continuing with the plan at 50 rpm? Or should I knock it on the head and start something else?
2500 / 130 should mean 1/3 of that at 40 RPM should be 700w so really 250w should not be a problem. I am not even close to as strong as you but I could try 250w at 40rpm on my kickr for about 10 seconds to see if it can handle that much resistance if you are curious.
I would say since 50rpm is still more resistance than you do now (since I assume you have not reached this limit before) then this is a new training stimulus for you so I would continue with it. It’s still strength endurance. Can you increase target watts (+ button) at all when at 50rpm or the same problem?
In the peak block we have something called dynamic force that is more like 60rpm in VO2max that you could try also as a test.
That makes sense, thank you. I’ve sent wattbike an email so I’ll talk to them and see if they can shed any light.
50rpm feels very stange, I usually ride in the 95-100 range so its definitely a new stimulus!
I’ll try increasing the watts at 50RPM, good idea. That should tell us if its just a low cadence issue or a low cadence + wattage issue.
Thank you for your input, much appreciated
Yes low RPM is super strange at first, and for me it feels rather easy (aerobically) but then I end up sore if I have not done it in a while. It feels so good it’s kind of easy to over do it, but then some guys are really strong guys more like sprinter profile so it’s not so bad for them.
Sure let me know how it goes.
So I got a response from wattbike…
“This type of low cadence training is not possible on any of the Wattbike cadence is too low for the power meter.”
“In order to get a reliable date you will need to maintain a minimum of 60rpm.”
Sorry to hear. The main benefit of SFR is to provide strength endurance. The strength part comes from increased pressure on the pedals (newton meters) for a sustained period of time (starting easy building to harder). So while not as perfect you can just do 300w intervals at 60rpm and it will be the same amount of force. It will not be as easy aerobically but will still give you the primary benefit of SFR and should not be super hard aerobically.
We also have a peak period that has a workout sequence called dynamic force. This is hard aerobic and high newton meters force (you can build a custom plan and select dyanmic force). This is a natural sequence after doing SFR or in your case hybrid SFR.
I will ask Coach Andrea what he feels are the differences. Between these 3 workouts.
Cadence below 50-60rpm is really max strength. You can do that only outdoors on an incline with your hardest gear. 3-5 revolutions (3-5 reps per leg), then rest and repeat.
The SFR workouts are much longer in duration and should be beneficial for sustained strength.
It’s similar to doing hypertrophy/max strength weight training or power training with a lower % of max 1 rep.
Correct me if I’m wrong. Coach Andrea will have the definitive answer.
No, SFR is 35-45 RPM in Z2/Z3 so z2/z3 power and not max strength at all, they are not like big gear starts, they start with 1 minute intervals (see below). The are very much strength endurance, not just strength. See below. This is 100% confirmed with Andrea.
For him all we are talking about is increasing cadences from 40rpm average to 60rpm average and increasing power by 30%. This gives the same newton meters of force. I got the number wrong it should be closer to 325 watts.
I also confirmed with Andrea while not the same workout, it’s close enough to provide mostly the same stimulous.
Ok, learned something again today 
So just try an SFR workout and press + a couple times at the bottom on the SFR intervals and do 60 rpm. Or you could create custom versions of these workouts real quickly. Just clone the workout. If you need a 30 second video on how to do this I can. It’s should take more than 10 minutes to do the whole plan.
Thanks for your help Alex, much appreciated.
I’m going to try and stay at 50rpm because it seemed ok when I tried the first workout. If I run into trouble I’ll up it slightly.
Out of interest how should I calculate the target wattage for a given RPM to make sure I’m pushing enough force?
Just tried to calculate it… I think it’s 310w @ 50rpm. Is that correct?
248/(0.105 *40) = 59nm
310/(0.105 * 50) = 59nm
You got it
I’ve got a couple more questions (sorry!)
354w @ 50rpm seems very different to 248w @ 35rpm (maybe its not, ive not tried!)
Perhaps I should be targeting the lower end of the torque range - 276 @ 50rpm? That seems like it is more in line with the orignial workout? Just want to check im not going to ruin my knees or deviate too far from the original workout.
Thanks again!
No problem, I like these discussions. Assuming you are starting at SFR #1 then these 1 minute intervals are pretty safe. You might feel something slightly in your knees and this is good because it actually increases your knee resilience. But to your point you don’t want to feel too much.
If you can hold close to 50 rpm then I think 310 watts is a good number
Here is my spreadsheet
https://shared-web.s3.amazonaws.com/trainerday/forum/ConvertWattsRPM_To_Torque.xlsx
310watts is much less “fun” since it is taxing you to some degree aerobically and strength wise but the actually resulting muscle stress is very similar since the torque is very similar.
Your suggestion on how to do this with our calendar is correct, as you will see the power slightly goes up from the beginning to the end which you should do the same. If you decide you are not feeling much after a few workouts and/or if you can’t seem to average closer to 52 rpm or so then you might want to increase the watts a little more.
You can also just use this calculator to verify numbers
Thanks again for your help and sharing the spreadsheet!
I realised that I was comparing apples to oranges… I should be thinking in a 45-55rpm range and apply the lower torque level to the lower rpm level and the upper torque level to the upper rpm level (rather than applying them both to 50rpm).
When looking at the ranges its impossible to match the torques at the top and bottom of the range exactly at different RPMs, for example:
248 @ 35rpm = 67.6
248 @ 40rpm = 59.2 
248 @ 45rpm = 52.6
310 @ 45rpm = 65.7
310 @ 50rpm = 59.2
310 @ 55rpm = 53.8
Basically 310w @ 50rpm is fine. I was confusing myself thinking about 50rpm @ 354w because it doesnt really exist.
Also, I tested 310w @ 50rpm yesterday to make sure I didnt have any wattbike issues and can confirm it wasnt “fun” 
