Training VO2max when tired?

Hi there,

I am wondering if it is still effective to do VO2max workouts when you are tired.

I follow a three week on/one week off plan and I do a 5x4mn@120% workout every week. On week 1, HR usually goes nicely up to 98% of max HR and 96% of HR reserve during this workout. HR doesn’t go as high on week 2 but still reaches a good 96% of max HR and 95% of HR reserve.

On total, this workout usually allows me to spend solid time near VO2max, about 12mn on week 1 and 10-11mn on week 2.

But on week 3, even though I can still push the required power, I rarely get to 90% of max HR, let alone HR reserve…

Hence my question. Is it still effective to do this workout if HR doesn’t get near VO2max ? Or maybe it is time to switch to a 2 week on/1 week off schedule (I am getting close to 50 yo) ? Or even have a look into the 9 day week ?

Thanks very much for you feedback on this.

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Hi Pierrehalmet,

That is a hell of a workout. There are many different workouts and schedules. This looks like descending pyramid training, not because of the time but because of your energy levels.

So, your question is a good one and, in this case, provides you with the answer. It isn’t. Obviously, this schedule wears you out.

There are a few different solutions. You proposed to change from a 3/1 to a 2/1 schedule. That is an option, but I think the simplest solution is to make the training easier.

It is okay if you feel tired after one training. It is okay if you feel tired after a training period, but if it wears you out, then you have taken on too much.

You could try 3 minute blocks and see what your energy levels are in week 3. Personally I always choose shorter intervals, like 30/15’s or 1/1.
I only use the longer blocks for competition or steep mountain sections that progress for a longer period of time.

When I use these blocks it is only for a couple of weeks during peak period.

Research shows that athletes can maintain the shorter blocks better. The result is more quality time at the desired power.

Like you said: 5x4 min gives you 12 min of solid time near VO2max. That also means that you are hammering yourself 8 minutes for nothing.

My advice would be to try the shorter blocks and vary more in the time you use them.

To give you an idea. Let’s take a 12 week period. Since you are an experienced cyclist you start with 2 sets of 3x 1/1. Next week you’d do 3 sets of 3x 1/1. In the 3rd week 3 sets of 4x 1/1 and in the 4th week you could do 3 sets of 5x 1/1.

In the next 4 weeks you choose another set-up. Let’s do 40/20’s. Start your first week with 2 sets of 6x 40/20’s. Next week do 3 sets of 8x 40/20’s. The 3rd week you’d do 3 sets of 9x 40/20’s and the 4th week you’d do 3 sets of 10x 40/20’s.

For the last block you could use your 4m blocks. Build the workouts up, so start with 1 block of 4 minutes in week one and ad on or two blocks every week, not exceeding the limit of 4 blocks.

But I would challenge you to do another workout. Try a pyramid workout. Start with 30/30, 1/1, 1:30/1:30, 1/1, 30/30 in your 1ste week.
Next week you do the same until 2:30. 3rd and 4th Week until 3:00. Again, if you are very fit you can do a 2nd set.

What you see in my schedule is that, during rest week I still use intervals, but these are more for play. They are not meant to tire you. Get acquainted with the new workout, maybe find an on- or offline route that fits the workout.

The most important thing is not what you can do, but what you must do.
Most cyclists take their training to extremes and attempt workouts at the limit of what they can, far beyond the ideal training load.

Taking yourself to the limit every training, takes you over the limit during a training period.

Take it easy and just push yourself occasionally. You will recover better and give your body better opportunities to grow.

Have fun, Coach Robert

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Thanks a lot for your very detailed reply.

I have indeed built up to the 5x4mn workout, starting from a 1’/1’ thing all the way up. Also, the micro-intervals that I tried (30/15s, 30/30s, 40/20s) don’t really work for me, I only achieve good HR response towards the very end of the set. Finally, I will soon go easier with VO2max stuff as my A events are about long distance and my training will shift to long tempo and sweet spot workouts.

I think this is normal to get a weaker HR response at the end of a block, especially since one easy week seems enough to get my HR back on tracks but does that mean the block should be shorter or that the last part of the block should be different ?

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You are welcome.

Intervals that are shorter than 1 minute never work on heart rate. The response is to slow, so by the time you reach the end of the interval, your heart rate is just starting.

That doesn’t mean that the interval doesn’t work. Just ride them on power, or you could even wing it if you don’t use power and just do an (almost) all out effort.

If you use power, since you are a TD user you probably do, just ride the blocks on power.

If you do want to keep riding long blocks, you could lower the intensity too. For instance 115%. This is also something I see a lot. Cyclists want to ride the upper end of the zone for every interval.

It makes perfect sense though, to ride at a lower intensity when the duration is longer. Just play with these things, duration, intensity, number of reps and sets and you will see that you can do the same training in many different ways.

It is not about how long you can hit the max every training session. Less is more. Try to understand how much less is enough to get better.

Have fun

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