Z2 base++ plan - why is it so difficult!

[ANonTD]

So I just completed a 4 week Base++ plan and almost every single ride was quite tough (a different kind of tough from sweet spot training that I did on trainerroad before), I was surprised as I thought the idea was it would be easy to build my base/foundation but perhaps that was a misnomer?

After completing my sweet spot program on trainerroad and seeing a raise in my FTP, I moved over to trainerday and did the base++ as mentioned. I find that while I do sit in the z2 heart rate zones, when doing the longer and “harder” intervals (13 minutes sometimes!!!) that I am on the upper end of Z2 HR and maybe ~65-75% FTP.

Is this… Normal? I find it very difficult to push through some of the intervals without taking a break and I am not even riding that long… 60-75 minute rides.

[Alex]

This is not normal. Maybe you increased the intensity a lot and did not realize it? Here is what base++ should look like at the default intensity level

Most of it is 60% other than the short HIIT. Some times it gets up to 70%.

Your ride feel/intensity should look like this by default unless you changed it.

[ANonTD]

So the program does look like that, except the fact that I split the rides to 4 days/week and only have 4 hours a week since being on the saddle is just absolute torture at my current fitness.

It does seem the intensity was adjusted, I take it this was something I did myself (I don’t remember) as I was likely trying to emulate the feeling from what I was doing on trainerroad (albeit it was a different type of training program altogether)?

I should also note that it is true that the majority of the ride is lower than 60% of FTP but even for the long intervals at that FTP, the fatiguing does kick in (burn and wanting to stop but very different from I have nothing left to give ‘e.g. doing an FTP test’). I was always under the impression that with Z2 training I could just spin indefinitely but I am always more than happy to finish a one hour Z2 ride from the base++ program every single time!

[Alex]

Yes you chose a bit tired but do-able and you chose base++ which is the hardest base plan… that combination makes it not easy. And as you said, you are a bit tired but do-able.

It’s closer to true zone 2 if you change that down to the lowest setting. People are different also. One time a guy came here that could ride sweet spot all day long because he had a strange case that sweet spot for him was zone 2 heart rate. So based on how you are are sounding I think it should be set to “I feel like I could do more than that.” True zone 2 and base should be able to be done all day, but in that case it would be better to use our HR+ mode and set it to about 65-70% of max HR (Find your AeT)… then you are doing real zone 2.

[Robert_UCL]

Hi AntonTd,

Nice work on all the structured training that you are planning for yourself. That is a good way to get better.

You have to think about your body as two machines. You have the fat burning engine and the carb-burning engine. That fat burning engine is the base. The carb-burning engine brings more speed and power to that base.

These engines always work together. So, you are always burning a mixture of carbs and fat. The harder you go, the more carbs you will burn. These engines are, for a big part, determined by your genes. Some of us are pure sprinters (like Cavendish), some are pure climbers (like Vingegard), and some are a little bit of both (like Pogacar).

With training, you can stimulate one or the other. If you are doing hard intervals all the time, you will lose your ability to do longer rides. And if you only do zone 2, you will lose your ability to ride fast.

That is why a mixture of training is essential, and I guess that is part of your problem, too.

While doing the sweet spot training, you’ve missed a lot of zone 2 training. So you got good at doing sweet spot, but your aerobic threshold didn’t progress along with this type of training.

A lactate test would probably show it.

My advice is to ignore your zone 2 power and use the zone HR to do these trainings. Your power is not measured, it is estimated from your FTP.

You could also do the zone test on Trainer Day. It is a good test to measure your aerobic threshold. If needed, adjust your aerobic threshold and continue doing the great work you have done so far.

Have lots of fun, Coach Robert

[ANonTD]

Thank you for your response! It makes sense. I will look into doing the zone test but can you please advise which test that is to make sure I’m doing it correctly.

[Robert_UCL]

Hi AntonTD,

Glad I could help. Today, while cycling, I got another thing you should take a look at and that is cadence.

When your cadence is to low it will cost you a lot of power. If you are training indoors you also have a constant pressure to keep pedaling.

If you are riding outside there will be more breaks due to traffic lights, corners, going downhill, etc.

This is the work-out: Trainer Day - Workout: Zone 2 - Heart Rate Test

Have fun

[ANonTD]

Thanks, I do try to keep it above 80rpm and most rides average above that, much harder to sustain 90+ for myself especially without sending my HR up.

As for the zone 2 test, am I to understand I should hold a conversation comfortably after about 15 minutes in, should the ride be done via ERG or HR+?

What exactly am I looking to gain from this ride (as in, how do I analyze the data and what is the goal)? Is it figuring out between 15-20 minutes when having a conversation would be hard? What is the definition of hard here and then using the HR at that time to make that my HR threshold?

Appreciate the insights!

On another note I’ve never done an HR+ ride before and look to start a progressive sweet spot plan after my rest week this week. Should I continue with base++ if I only can spend 3-4 hours a week? The plans look very similar at a glance.

[Robert_UCL]

The thing with cadence is that you ride efficient at your natural cadence. This means that, for training power, there is no use in riding a different cadence than your natural preference.

That doesn’t mean that you should train cadence. It means you should seperate getting faster from getting more efficient. My advice is to do some cadence drills during warm up and then forget about it.

You can ride the test at erg and just talk every once in a while. Use a couple of senctences. Once you get to that point where the sentence is paused by a breath you are over the threshold.

You could do this test outside too with a buddy. Slowly increase the speed to where you find that the conversation is not natural and your focus shifts from the conversation to keeping the pace.

If your are time crunched I would recommend a Polarised program over a sweet spot program. Sweet spot takes more time to get better.

If you have any questions, let me know.