Hello,
I’m progressing with my weekly AeT tests - I’m seeing some small progresses, and I’m happy.
I’ve just noticed that with my last 2 tests the decoupling (heart rate drift of first 30 minutes vs next 30 minutes) is negative (after the usual 20 minutes warm-up). Do you have any explanation for that?
Here the details (workout splitted in 12 x 5 minutes intervals):
What happened is you are getting old because no young person in their right mind would have this much data or even be thinking about zone 2 unless their coach forced them… 
Have you reached the point where you’ve gained what can from the AeT work and it is time to move on to a different workout block?
Dave
Hi @dthrog00
how can I understand if I reached that point? I think I’ve not yet. You can also see the aerobic progresses on the table below, which I also paste here:
I started my base period in October. I think I’ve made some progresses (what do you think?) but still not too much and still seeing some small improvements. I understood that the base period should last about 3 months (I’m following Maffeton method by trying to train with my HR below 180-age+5= 139bpm - but most of the time trying to stay below 135).
What is improvement that I should observe in such period?
Are you only doing MAF workouts since October?
How many workouts / hours have you completed since you started your base period?
I think there is more improvement in your aerobic function to be had.
In base period, that could include extending the duration of (one, some, or all of) your workouts, or adding more workouts to your plan.
In the real world, if time / life does not allow that, then swapping out one of your workouts for one with work at a higher intensity (something around the 85% FTP mark) for a few weeks is (ime) very worth considering.
@Ivegotabike
correct, I’m doing exclusively MAF workouts since October - about 10-12 hours per week:
To be a MAF purist I’ve understood that I should reduce/avoid all anaerobic workouts, I also reduced weight training 
Starting from January I’ll start polarized (80% MAF, 20% HIIT/anaerobic)
I really appreciate your comments
ps adding power zone distribution (black vertical line is middle of October)
Good stuff.
What is typically your longest single ride in a week? Is there any opportunity to extend the duration of a ride?
I am currently in my second (of six planned) week including two of the “fatmax” workouts (that you may have seen me mention here before) in an otherwise MAF HR regime. It is too early to say what that will do, but I am mentally appreciating the variety in the schedule, if nothing else.
What I think is so important here is that general trend line up, and even if you go crazy and need to take breaks from this just keeping that slow upward trend for years turns you into the eventual monster, genetics, recovery, volume dependent monster…
@Ivegotabike
I try to do 4 long rides lasting about 3hours (over weekend also 4h 5h, but those on uphills also include downhills at 0 pwr)
I know that fewer longer “base rides” are better than more frequent short rides, and I do like that.
@Alex
yes, I agree with you. I’m just trying to see that trend line up. Currently the trend is up very very lightly 
Replacing one shorter LIT by a progressive Tempo workout, is likely going to move that progress line up some more.
Do sustained efforts mid tempo zone, going from ex. 5x6, 4x8, 3x12… with relatively short rests, 3-4 min. Do them by Power but keep an eye on HR. HR should flat out after 3-4 min indicating stable internal load. It should not continue to creep up untill the end of an effort.
That will further increase aerobic efficiency and capacity without becoming to taxing. And it will prepare you for the planned HIT sessions in januari.
I think @BlackTek is likely already well past the point where starting with such short intervals would be as beneficial as jumping into something like 3x20 and building up through 3x25, 3x30, 2x45 and 1x90
The Fatmax thread is this way 
I agree. He was doing more intensity previously and the aerobic trend line was rather flat, so seeing some aerobic progress is better than none… but yes it will be interesting to see what happens when he switches to his 80/20.
I do think the Fatmax workouts, used sparingly and as part of an overall Low HR plan, may well turn out to be a very good supplement to the Maffetone HR level workouts: which should be the dominant workout, supplementation being only 1 or 2 workouts per week, for a few weeks, after a few months of MAF only work.
Sort of along the same lines as the MAF protocol calls for anaerobic workouts to be used sparingly every few months.
I have copied this section of a post by a user called batwood14 on the TR forum’s thread on Steve Neale’s Fatmax. I think it is relevant here - the objective: to improve the aerobic performance.
"Based on what he saw from my past workouts (I think) he determined that while my top-end FTP was good, my aerobic system wasn’t as developed as it could be – so we spent a lot of time working on that.
According to Xert, my FTP has gone from 300 down to 285. He mentioned this limitation in software modeling (both Xert and WKO4) in the podcast and – I’m not going to lie to you – doing low intensity work while seeing your FTP theoretically fall took some getting used to. It actually sucked. But now that I’ve started to have some results, it’s much easier to accept.
I’ll be honest, it’s not the results that hooked me necessarily – it is honestly the way I felt after HUGE efforts. He mentioned in the podcast that my race had A LOT of 3 minute repeats…those repeats are in the form of sharp hills that are anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 mile long at 12%-20% grades at their steepest…there is no way to get up them while staying in the lead group without blasting it. In years past, I felt wasted after 1 or 2 of them and then I’d get dropped. This year I hit the gas and then once we crested I felt relatively recovered in 3-5 minutes and could do it again."
I started to work on my own vo2max calculation that factors in aerobic improvements that could counter this ftp going down frustration. Its real. All algorithms seem to use some form of max effort to calculate ftp. We will add auto ftp and probably need to follow that trend… I am not sure yet.
Yes for sure your fatmax efforts might do a great job of improving your aerobic. I know in the case of @BlackTek that he does some pretty heavy weight training, mtb climbs and typically has not gotten much sleep and is 40, so this combination likely could drive the stronger need for pure aerobic… Total combined stress that is heavily weighted by sleep quality and age really matters… but it’s all individual. The best is maf tests and just watch and see.
TR is launching AIFTP 3.0 anytime soon apparently… I don’t think it does a bad job now, but it is good to see work continuing to refine it.
I also saw that Stride (with Alex Dowsett on board) claims to have its own AIFTP too.
So maybe it is an “in thing” these days
Hi all!
I’m just back from my 4+ hours Z2 ride today. Today I pushed a little bit more (but always below my VT1 which is 146 bpm). Avg HR 131, with
@Ivegotabike
I can already sustain SS for 60/90 minutes, without any rest; this is not a problem. The “problem” is that during pure MAF training I should normally stay below 180-age+5 = 139 in my case.
The workout done today was a bit stretched on the upper side, more toward FatMax.
But do you agree that I should continue for another 1-2 months with pure MAF training?
And after that do 80/20 (where the 80 could be MAF + FatMax).
What do you think?
What can I expect as a result/goal of this Base/MAF period?
I started the AeT tests this winter with a power of about 200/205w at 135bpm; now I’m around 205-210 (still no big step-up). Is it realistic to expect 215/220w in January? What can be a realistic goal?
I have no idea what sort of goal you can expect. I can tell you that between 6 July and today, my power at 126bpm has increased from 189W to 217W by mostly riding at around that HR.
Keep checking the MAF test results.
But yes, you are about 6 weeks in to a multi month (some say multi year) programme to improve your aerobic conditioning. So at least another couple of months before you add higher intensity stuff for a few weeks or so.
At that point, then following the MAF programme, you would do hard, high heart rate efforts of around 15-30 minutes once or twice per week.
Here is a section from an article by Mark Allen - it is about running, but I think it applies more broadly.
"Over time, however, you will get the maximum benefit possible from doing just aerobic training. At that point, after several months of seeing you pace get faster at your maximum aerobic heart rate, you will begin to slow down. This is the sign that if you want to continue to improve on your speed, it is time to go back to the high end interval anaerobic training one or two days/week. So you will have to go back to the NO Pain, NO Gain credo once again. But this time, your body will be able to handle it. Keep at the intervals and you will see your pace improve once again for a period. But just like the aerobic training, there is a limit to the benefit you will receive from anaerobic/carbohydrate training. At that point, you will see your speed start to slow down again. And that is the signal that it is time to switch back to a strict diet of aerobic/fat burning training.
Keep your interval sessions to around 15-30 minutes of hard high heart rate effort total. This means that if you are going to the track to do intervals do about 5k worth of speed during the entire workout. Less than that and the physiological effect is not as great. More than that and you just can’t maintain a high enough effort during the workout to maximize our benefit. You want to push your interval making each one a higher level of intensity and effort than the previous one. If you reach a point where you cannot maintain your form any longer, back off the effort or even call it a day. That is all your body has to give."
I would say that sounds rather like a 5x5 or maybe a 5x6 VO2 workout, doesn’t it?
But, I do think it is worth noting that batwood14 over on the TR forum seemed to be training for the type of ride I have seen you describe here. He had very good results from a block of Fatmax type workouts, with hardly any VO2 at all. Just a couple of 30/30 sessions very close to race day.
tnx @Ivegotabike
I appreciate a lot your posts! this sounds as a good plan and a good strategy on how to decide when starting/stopping anaerobic works.
I’ll continue with pure MAF for some extra weeks, but probably every once in a while I’ll push the workout a little bit harder (like today) toward the 146bpm (LT1/VT1 measured in lab). Also Maffetone states that the formula is an approximation of the VT1 threshould. Anyway, lower better than higher.
Tnx again - I’ll keep you posted with my results every once in a while I repeat the AeT test every Tuesday because I also do it for training by adding extra 3x30 minutes of HR Z2 intervals (120 / 125 / 120 bpm)
amazing, congrats! how many hours per week at that pace? are you also avoiding any anaerobic work?
I didn’t set out to comply with the MAF protocol, but the more of it I did, the more I appreciated the value and the closer to ‘pure’ I got.
Around 10 - 16h per week. That depends on the weather being conducive to outdoor rides.
My indoor rides are usually 2h
I did a short sprint workout per week through to October and a quite spicy group ride most weeks too. Checking back I also did a handful of VO2 workouts early on in the period. I am now in week two (of six planned) of twice per week Fatmax workouts (which I am also now doing with HR+ rather than power).
When this six week block including the Fatmax is over, I am not yet 100% sure what I will do next. Probably six weeks of the low HR stuff again, during which I will consider what to do after that.
