Did I say in another post that the HR-controlled workout feature is great? It’s really great.
Quoting Tony the Tiger
Quite a good formula for adjusting resistance to raise/lower HR. When doing a ride at 75% HRmax, I’ll switch to erg and increase watts so I can stand up a minute at 60rpm to relieve seat pressure at 30min, then shift back to HR when I sit again. The app progressively lowers resistance until HR is back to 75%.
Thanks!
BRET
Hi Bret, so happy you like it. I think it’s cool as well 
I have always like HR based training but if I remember correctly one of our users suggested the feature which is what inspired me to build it.
HR+ mode is excellent.
It is the reason that I eventually subscribed and it is such a superb way of executing “Zone 2” and other “low” intensity workouts, that I am kicking myself for not subscribing sooner.
How are you guys using the HR feature?
Some days I perform better than others. On a good day my zone 2 HR is low enough to push higher power and it stops being a true Z2 ride. On a not as good day Z2 HR and power are aligned.
I’ve just been using Z2 power and not controlling HR.
Dave
I assume you are not asking how to use the feature. Press HR+ in our app is simplest… but you are asking them their specifics? It might be better to clarify the question as I am confused so they might be too.
I’m just saying it isn’t always working great because some days power drifts into high Z2 or low Z3 and other days stays in mid Z2.
On the higher power HR ratio days I can get some fatigue.
Dave
There is no rule that says your HR zones must align with your power zones.
It is usual for the Power / HR ratio to vary day to day.
Do consider trying the HR+ function to control HR and let power whatever it does. Z2 rides are, imo, best managed on HR and duration.
If you are consistently delivering Z3 power at Z2 HR, then well done - that is a good thing.
That said, it maybe be time to consider when your next FTP test is scheduled - it might have crept up since your last one.
Consider if progress towards your training goals would benefit from doing longer rides of this type. What happens to the power you can sustain at Z2 HR if you add on an extra 30 minutes? 60 minutes? 90 minutes? etc.
As the power you can produce at Z2 HR increases, then the absolute energy consumed in a Z2 ride increases. It is that which causes the fatigue. Think about if / how you fuel your workouts as the energy consumption increases.
In case you haven’t seen this yet, here is Pogacar talking about his Z2 training
Yes, HR and Power can decouple, especially if you’ve reached an overtraining level of fatigue, are recovering from a race, have been sleeping poorly, etc. Training by Power more equates to how fast you can go on a given course while training by HR equates to the physiological exertion you might feel on a given course. That you feel more fatigue after a Z2 HR workout that was at higher Power might mean you were “fresher”, but you did more work and might feel more post-workout fatigue and recover less quickly.
I’ll think about trying it again, but tonight I did a 1 hour zone 2 workout by power with 5 minutes warmup & cool down and 50 minutes at 65% and it was great. HR was stable and per intervals decoupling was only 0.1%.
I feel like I achieved the desired benefit at next to no fatigue cost and I will be ready to go again tomorrow. I think that’s the goal of an after work zone 2 ride on the trainer.
I’m not an active member, but a lurker on the TR forum and I recognize the name Ivegotabike. I don’t recall anything in particular from there, but appreciate people with deep endurance training knowledge coming to the TD forum.
Dave
If .1 drift, hr stable, the hr mode would have been the same fatigue. HR mode is typically best for off days that you can forget about it and power should be reduced. Set your HR target for your best days and then it will only be less intense not more. Sounds like you set hr target too high.
HR+ is more about solving a problem. If you are happy with Z2 power then you don’t have a problem to solve.
But also many advanced low hr practitioners start doing hr based “z2” intervals because steady state can be tiring. Pog says his z2 can be tiring.
Yeah I think you’re right.
My peak cycling HR is ~ 190 last achieved late 2024. My observed LTHR from a 30 minute Joe Friel style test is 168. I’m 45 so my MAF style HR should be ~ 135.
The HR test where I saw power go up so much was at 125, so 10 BPM offset from the Maffetone suggestion.
Outside it is difficult to keep HR as low of 125, but for whatever reason inside if I have that HR I start to build fatigue. Yesterday felt like a great workout and HR for the 50 minute section was only 118!
That sounds like it would be too low to be useful, and maybe it is, but I feel great today, sleep and health metrics are really good, and I’m primed to go for an outdoor ride after work today.
The HR + ride mentioned is below. The sections marked “H” were HR+ set to 125 if I recall. The 4 minutes in the middle was setup to control by power if I needed to go to the bathroom, etc…
Dave
Yes people have to stop thinking Z2 max - 10 or even -20 is not useful… Maffetone says better too low than too high and -10 is a perfect target for many but you doing under that is also great. I think you are doing perfect
I have begun down the path of using “MAF” workouts in my training. Since 6 July I have done 13x 2hr HR+ workouts with the HR target at 126bpm. My overall volume and TSS / week has stayed pretty much the same as it was for a while before 6 July.
I put “MAF” because I am not doing the whole Maffetone thing: not the diet and not exclusively “MAF” workouts (I do a weekly group ride that always has a couple of spicy moments in it and I do a sprints workout once per week too).
Here is what is happening in and around that ~126bpm area of my Power/HR chart already.
I am carrying less fatigue than I expected and I did very good numbers (for me) in my sprints workout this week. It is too early to tell if that was just because I was less fatigued from these “MAF” workouts than from the mixture of different workouts I was doing previously, or something else.
Previously, I would often do TR’s Lachat as a 2hr endurance workout (TR PL 5.6), which would push my HR up into the 140-145 range at points.
These HR+ workouts at 126bpm are, in terms of TSS, KJ and IF, quite comparable to Lachat. However, they leave me noticeably less fatigued, even when stacked up on four consecutive days.
Based on what I have seen so far, I will be continuing to concentrate on workouts at this HR level.
You’ve got beast mode working! The data looks great.
Dave
I refer to - and reiterate - my earlier post on this thread
It is a competitive advantage for TD and I hope @alex and the team are thinking about potential refinements to the algorithm from time to time that will keep it as good as it can be.
I am always looking for ideas The problem is each person is so unique in how their heart reacts and how their trainers work and the relationships between HR and power. I tried refining the way the ramp/up down process worked and a few people liked it and the majority hated it So it seemed that custom ERG ramps as a jump off point made it work for everyone.
I am more focused on the other side which is clear monitoring of aerobic improvement without the user having to do anything or do max efforts. Right now their are too many AeT / Zone 2 protocols and all a bit confusing as to what is best so just riding and getting feed back should be all that is required. I believe I have a good algorithm… just need to time to finish it and get it available.
Super cool you are seeing great results. I also see great results from doing low intensity efforts… I think Maffetone has a lot of flexibly in his program. He gives the strict version to make people sure they are seeing progress but as long as you are seeing progress he thinks you can do whatever you want (although too much intensity is not healthy from his perspective but that is very individual). I really spent a lot of time studying him 10-12 years ago… and small pieces here or there since then.
Here is a chart from crickles.org comparing my 126 HR+ workout (red) from 28 July to my Lachat workout (blue) from 20 June.
If I wasn’t already convinced, I think this chart would cause me to seriously consider how I was doing aerobic improvement workouts.
A quick update on my “Maffetone” journey.
A month on from my previous update and I’ve done another 12x 2hr HR+ workouts with the HR target at 126bpm, taking the total to 25. My overall volume and TSS / week has stayed pretty much the same as it was for a long while before 6 July (the date of my first HR+ workout).
Here is what is happening in and around that ~126bpm area of my Power/HR chart already.
+34w at 126bpm. An 18% increase versus the previous six months.
Great job!!! It’s unbelievable right? It was shocking the first time I experienced this.
It took me way too long to realise that HR is the best metric to use in the lower training zones.
Even with that realisation, I was still sceptical that training at a HR even lower than “Zone 2” could deliver much for me.
If anyone had told me on July 6 that before the end of August I would see this much improvement, I simply would not have believed it.
But it has.
I will continue.
